Best Football game of all time

[Bravez]

Wasn't sure how to vote on this because it's so subjective and dependent on relative tech etc.

In the end i went for the game which I think really changed everything in terms of how football games played and the variation that was possible and that for me, was PES2. It was such a jump from the first and I just remember feeling so immersed and able to do whatever I wanted.

In terms of pure completeness I'd probably say FIFA15/16.

 

[Chris Davies]

In the end i went for the game which I think really changed everything in terms of how football games played and the variation that was possible and that for me, was PES2. It was such a jump from the first and I just remember feeling so immersed and able to do whatever I wanted.

In terms of pure completeness I'd probably say FIFA15/16.

Almost exact same feelings as yourself.

PES2 came along at a time when my friends and I were saying "it can't get any better really can it", and somehow it did. Not just better "feel", fewer stiff animations and even more varied gameplay, but more teams/divisions for ML, cup games, contract negotiations... It's no wonder it outsold FIFA.

Speaking of FIFA, I looked up some PES2 reviews and check out this quote from this BBC Sport review of the game:

"You won't get five-all matches which characterise the arcade feel of EA's FIFA series [...]"

23 years later (twenty-three, holy shit) and that's your average online FC score, what's changed? Only the name.

From an arcade game, to something truly great in FIFA 16, and all the way back again. Sigh... Anyway.

That "We Will Rock You" intro is still probably my favourite game intro of all-time, just dripping with the dev's love of the game.
You knew they wanted what you wanted (to recreate the joy of football). That feeling left a looooong time ago now.



Now I say "almost" same feelings, because... I've written about WE6FE a few times before now.

The thrill of getting a PS2 chipped in a pub car park to be able to play it...
Buying the import from independent game retailers who loved PES as much as you did, and were as excited as you were to play it...
The work of patching the game with translations (burning a new disc to use an updated translation practically every week)...

The feeling of sitting down with my dad, who is 81 years old now, to play this game for the first time - in the early hours of the morning, before he left for work - after figuring out the patching process and getting it all working ... and neither of us being able to put the controller down until the last possible second.

It's no wonder I'm still here all these years later - and for me, WE6FE was the absolute pinnacle. So many little tweaks and fixes (crossing was a viable option again, for example).

 

[Bravez]

Almost exact same feelings as yourself.

And this is why I always check into the FIFA thread to see what your opinion is It's very rare anything you post doesn't reflect my thoughts almost exactly.

Ah the old chipped PS2. I bought something called swap magic i think it was. Had to pull off the front of my PS2, insert the region disc it came with for whatever region you wanted to play, then insert some little plastic tool to push the tray out and swap the disc for the game. I'll never forget the anticipation I felt when trying to load up WE9LE and the sheer excitement as it loaded up. Had picked it the game in a local independent after ordering the swap magic online.

There was something incredible about all game releases when information was at a premium and based only out of magazines. No leaks, no trailers, videos etc. Just a magazine article and hopefully a demo. In fact, I might ignore anything GTA6 related from now until release to try and get a little bit of that feeling back.

 

[vegasheat]

For me as of now, WE8LE has taken a #1 spot.

 

[HereForMods]

Wasn't sure how to vote on this because it's so subjective and dependent on relative tech etc.

In the end i went for the game which I think really changed everything in terms of how football games played and the variation that was possible and that for me

I think this is really good criteria

Look for me PES 2021 is the most realistic and complete football game ever made on any platform - I know people don't want to hear that and I DESPISE these nonsenical "gameplay mods" - but that's just my opinion

Shall I tell you how you know PES 2021 modded is the most realistic?

You know when you go on youtube right, and you see those spammers/clickbaiters claiming to show a live football game (Liverpool vs Man U for example) and it's ACTUALLY MODDED PES 😂 - There's a reason they NEVER use FIFA - PES 2021 to the untrained eye, with the right camera angles, speed, AI Tweaks etc DOES ACTUALLY LOOK SIMILAR TO A BROADCAST from a distance

NOW - If we are talking your original crtieria which I think is brilliant - I say these games...

Sensible Soccer on Amiga was LIGHT YEARS ahead of the games of it's time - not realistic LOOKING but amount of immersion was incredible

Fifa International Football on Sega Mega Drive (The very first FIFA game) might actually have been the biggest jump EVER in terms of how a football game looked and was presented, previous games were 2D with a bird's eye view - this game was one of the first 3d football games

Interational Super Star Soccer Pro - Evolution on the Playstation 1 - also known as "IIS Pro Evolution" - (This was BEFORE the name changed to PES on playstation 2) was a massive jump from the FIFA games of the time

Virtua Striker on the Arcade and later on Sega Dreamcast - When you talk about games that changed everything, the graphics were incredible, the sound was incredible and the goals were incredible - remember it even had "goal of the season" system where it would auto save and rank your goals and play them in a best goal compilation 😂

 

[Jeffafc]

I think this is really good criteria

Look for me PES 2021 is the most realistic and complete football game ever made on any platform - I know people don't want to hear that and I DESPISE these nonsenical "gameplay mods" - but that's just my opinion

Shall I tell you how you know PES 2021 modded is the most realistic?

You know when you go on youtube right, and you see those spammers/clickbaiters claiming to show a live football game (Liverpool vs Man U for example) and it's ACTUALLY MODDED PES 😂 - There's a reason they NEVER use FIFA - PES 2021 to the untrained eye, with the right camera angles, speed, AI Tweaks etc DOES ACTUALLY LOOK SIMILAR TO A BROADCAST from a distance

NOW - If we are talking your original crtieria which I think is brilliant - I say these games...

Sensible Soccer on Amiga was LIGHT YEARS ahead of the games of it's time - not realistic LOOKING but amount of immersion was incredible

Fifa International Football on Sega Mega Drive (The very first FIFA game) might actually have been the biggest jump EVER in terms of how a football game looked and was presented, previous games were 2D with a bird's eye view - this game was one of the first 3d football games

Interational Super Star Soccer Pro - Evolution on the Playstation 1 - also known as "IIS Pro Evolution" - (This was BEFORE the name changed to PES on playstation 2) was a massive jump from the FIFA games of the time

Virtua Striker on the Arcade and later on Sega Dreamcast - When you talk about games that changed everything, the graphics were incredible, the sound was incredible and the goals were incredible - remember it even had "goal of the season" system where it would auto save and rank your goals and play them in a best goal compilation 😂

I’ve definitely seen modded FIFA that looks similar to a real life football broadcast visually, but those mods are usually paid until the next FIFA is nearly out

 

[HereForMods]

I’ve definitely seen modded FIFA that looks similar to a real life football broadcast visually, but those mods are usually paid until the next FIFA is nearly out

The Ice Skating gives it away every time - look at youtube - the clickbaiters and spammers won't use it - they always use modded PES.

 

[Jeffafc]

T

The Ice Skating gives it away every time - look at youtube - the clickbaiters and spammers won't use it - they always use modded PES.

That’s true for FC, but I could also say the stiff, heavy PES 21 gameplay with zero fluidity and the intensity of a Sunday League game usually gives it away for me

 

[HereForMods]

T

That’s true for FC, but I could also say the stiff, heavy PES 21 gameplay with zero fluidity and the intensity of a Sunday League game usually gives it away for me

I don't want to make this a FIFA vs PES debate - i'm just telling you - if you go to youtube and see what the scammers and clickbaiters are using to try and get views by convincing people they are watching a REAL game of football between two teams.....They are using MODDED PES 2021 nearly every single time.

And that's for a reason - to the untrained eye for the couple of seconds you need to con someone to get them to click or whatever - it looks very realistic - when modded CORRECTLY - (which 90% of people cannot do btw)

 

[vegasheat]

People that say PES 21 is the most realistic football game ever. I politely disagree. PES 21 might look the most "realistic" and that's where it ends.

Gaming has changed for the worst. In 2025 realistic means cool graphics I guess. If PES 21 was such a great game, people wouldn't be chasing new gameplay mods on a weekly basis. Most of the modding too focuses on visuals.....these visuals is what people are being addicted to. Making the game LOOK realistic. But what about the feel ?

It trully amazes me when people say PES 21 is the most realistic....like what ? It could also be younger players in their 20s or so. Any PES/WE on PS2 has a better gameplay then PES 21. I'm really not sure what people find exciting in PES 21 lol. PES 19 was much a better game. Lets not even talk about PES 20 DEMO....

Out of the box, PES 21 is trash. 5/10. With mods 7/10.

We as society are toast lol. In 2025 people are modding the games more than actually playing them. The "modding" has become "playing".

We are chasing wrong things my friends.

 

[HereForMods]

Any PES/WE on PS2 has a better gameplay then PES 21.

In my OPINION

It absolutely DOES NOT - I don't know why people say this kind of thing

On PS2 PES you could only move and pass in 8 directions, there was zero physical football - you just ran into the CPU to get the ball back, there was only one type of shot, you couldn't even finesse shot until pes 6, the AI teammates are nowhere near as organized, cant press, cant make clever runs without you spamming 1-2 over and over - it's nowhere near what we have in football games today

I get the NOSTALGIA element - but that's all it is, NOSTALIGA - those games are primitive compared to what we have today.

If PES 1-6 was better than PES 2021 - we'd all be playing it now with the 2025 patches

Hardly anyone does

Because the game isnt that good in the year 2025

 

[Chris Davies]

In my OPINION

It absolutely DOES NOT - I don't know why people say this kind of thing

On PS2 PES you could only move and pass in 8 directions, there was zero physical football - you just ran into the CPU to get the ball back, there was only one type of shot, you couldn't even finesse shot until pes 6, the AI teammates are nowhere near as organized, cant press, cant make clever runs without you spamming 1-2 over and over - it's nowhere near what we have in football games today

I get the NOSTALGIA element - but that's all it is, NOSTALIGA - those games are primitive compared to what we have today.

If PES 1-6 was better than PES 2021 - we'd all be playing it now with the 2025 patches

Hardly anyone does

Because the game isnt that good in the year 2025

Respectfully disagree. In general, people will accept bad graphics to a certain degree but no further. Most people, sadly, wouldn't go back to PS2-level graphics even if the gameplay was better (and I truly think it was in games like PES5). When you've experienced the graphical fidelity we are blessed with in 2025, everyone's standards shift.

PES 2021, even with mods, is such a stiff experience where dribbling isn't really part of the game (unless you mod it so that all players can dribble like Ronaldinho, which defeats the object). Add to that the most predictable, rigid AI and I don't think it's a great gameplay package, nor can it be brute-forced into it when you can't reprogram the game (only change the variables currently within it).

But, the patches for it are (graphically) incredible, and can take you back to so many different eras of football. Even I can't wait for some of the patches in the works, even though I won't enjoy playing it for very long.

 

[vegasheat]

In my OPINION

It absolutely DOES NOT - I don't know why people say this kind of thing

On PS2 PES you could only move and pass in 8 directions, there was zero physical football - you just ran into the CPU to get the ball back, there was only one type of shot, you couldn't even finesse shot until pes 6, the AI teammates are nowhere near as organized, cant press, cant make clever runs without you spamming 1-2 over and over - it's nowhere near what we have in football games today

I get the NOSTALGIA element - but that's all it is, NOSTALIGA - those games are primitive compared to what we have today.

If PES 1-6 was better than PES 2021 - we'd all be playing it now with the 2025 patches

Hardly anyone does

Because the game isnt that good in the year 2025

I guess we are trying to validate our opinions. Can you then answer me this. Why is there 10000 gameplays made for PES 21 since its such a great game ? What are the people chasing ? What YOU are personally chasing is 100% simulation. You want to SIMULATE life-like events on the pitch right ? Well with PES 21 is you press a button, and the rest CPU does for you. PES 21 is a movie being played with button presses. PES on PS2 was arcade-sim based and thats why they are more fun to play.

You have kick off 2 - that to this day is being played....all older PES on PS2 are being played - this forum proves it and many others.

PES on PS2 felt like driving a manual car. I WAS in the control. PES 21 feels like driving an automatic vehicle.

In 5-10 yrs PES 21 will be obsolete. Maybe even sooner. PES 5 will be played for generations.

 

[HereForMods]

Respectfully disagree. In general, people will accept bad graphics to a certain degree but no further. Most people, sadly, wouldn't go back to PS2-level graphics even if the gameplay was better (and I truly think it was in games like PES5). When you've experienced the graphical fidelity we are blessed with in 2025, everyone's standards shift.

PES 2021, even with mods, is such a stiff experience where dribbling isn't really part of the game (unless you mod it so that all players can dribble like Ronaldinho, which defeats the object). Add to that the most predictable, rigid AI and I don't think it's a great gameplay package, nor can it be brute-forced into it when you can't reprogram the game (only change the variables currently within it).

But, the patches for it are (graphically) incredible, and can take you back to so many different eras of football. Even I can't wait for some of the patches in the works, even though I won't enjoy playing it for very long.

You know I love you brother but here's my response

I don't see a universe in the solar system where a ps2 game that has the following is more advanced than we have today - Just A FEW of the limitation in old pes

• Can only move 8 directions
• Can only pass 8 directions
• No curve on passes
• Did through balls even have a meter on PS2 or were they just one tap laser guided LOL - I cant remember
• No finesse shooting
• Only 1 or two ways to take a free kick - PES 2021 has something like 7/8 different ways of taking a free kick
• Same as above for penalities
• No jossling system - only way to get the ball is to run through an opposition player
• No manual passing or shooting (I dont use it but hey)
• Can't change formation during the kick off - attack - stages - This is HUGE - on PS2 - your team can only have ONE SHAPE for the same 90 mins hahaha - that's madness!
• Can't press - Can't Counter Target- Can't have wingbacks invert - you basically CANNOT DO ANY MODERN FOOTBALL TACTICS

And this is just a few of the limitations of PES on PS2 - it's useless in 2025 - that's why it's not worth playing IMO - not simply down to graphics

A good way to see how far todays game are actually ahead of these game is to look at stuff like this.

31 MILLION VIEWS - Real Life goals - recreated with near 100% authenticity in PES 2021 and FIFA - This is not even REMOTELY possible in ANY version of PES on Playstation 2

And that alone tells you all you need to know

 

[Chris Davies]

I don't see a universe in the solar system where a ps2 game that has the following is more advanced than we have today - Just A FEW of the limitation in old pes

• Can only move 8 directions
• Can only pass 8 directions
• No curve on passes
• Did through balls even have a meter on PS2 or were they just one tap laser guided LOL - I cant remember
• No finesse shooting
• Only 1 or two ways to take a free kick - PES 2021 has something like 7/8 different ways of taking a free kick
• Same as above for penalities
• No jossling system - only way to get the ball is to run through an opposition player
• No manual passing or shooting (I dont use it but hey)
• Can't change formation during the kick off - attack - stages - This is HUGE - on PS2 - your team can only have ONE SHAPE for the same 90 mins hahaha - that's madness!
• Can't press - Can't Counter Target- Can't have wingbacks invert - you basically CANNOT DO ANY MODERN FOOTBALL TACTICS

And this is just a few of the limitations of PES on PS2 - it's useless in 2025 - that's why it's not worth playing IMO - not simply down to graphics

My response to each of your bullets is pretty much the same - that despite all of those restrictions, the outcomes were incredibly realistic (and fun), and better than what we have now.

8 directions, yet the ball was more free than in modern games with 360 directions, with more error and more varied outcomes (rather than every pass going to feet, perfectly).

8 directions and yet every review in every magazine of those PS2 PES games said the thing that kills all modern football games for me; every single goal was different.

No finesse shooting? You didn't need it because shooting was contextual...

I won't go on, but the old engine was (and still is) incredible; taking your input and instead of just going "PASS TO 265 DEGREE AT 65.3% POWER" as you suggest it does (are you playing on full manual or something?) ... it would go "okay, this terrible default ML player is trying to hit a 50 yard pass to the player on the opposite wing based on his directional and power input - if there are any opponent players anywhere near this, they should intercept it because he's playing way beyond his capability".

The modern games are supposed to do the same, but the AI is so poor you just pass, pass, pass to players in open space requiring barely any thought. You don't have to work for anything, there is no punishing you (and if there is, it's not fairly based on attributes etc. but rather the difficulty level and scripting). They are so repetitive and so boring.

 

[FC Bayern]

I see the argument for both. I love the older games (I've about 261Gb of PES 3-6 patches on my laptop), but they aren't as 'manual' as new games because I can still play on camera angle 9 without issues.

When I go back to PES 2021 on my PS5, I feel the difference. The ball feels more loose, the AI feels like more of a challenge to play against (even if an artificial challenge). I don't play the game so much where I can tell what the AI will do. I've scored some absolute rocket goals on PES 2021, and I've done the same on PES 6. Both have their merits, both have their audience. And so I wonder if the best of PES is somewhere in the middle, perhaps between 2013-2017. The most important factor for a football game HAS to be gameplay. Every other bell and whistle is a bonus. This question is so nebulous, there will be no definite answer, because everyone clearly have differing opinions here. As I say, I can see the argument for both sides of the coin. I can't answer myself, because there's no game I go back to and play constantly. I go here, I go there, and I go somewhere else, depending on the mood and game I feel like playing.

Be thankful that we have such a bounty of game that we can argue which is the best. And be ready for a lot of agreeing to disagree. The constant that links us, we all love football games

 

[Jay-Jay 10]

For me best football games at the moment are probably PES 6 with the Fifa 96 mod. I am sinking so many hours into this. It is a time where I really was getting more into football and it is so much fun playing with these legends.

After that Fifa 15 and 16 are games I constantly play and enjoy. They had just a very special feeling about them.

 

[Topaz]

This poll is interesting. It just shows people care more about visuals than realism because PES 2021 is not at all realistic or fun.

 

[Gunslinger]

PES 5 & 6

 

[sleevel]

If you define realism as “Is this a reasonable situational outcome for the event?” then PES5/6/WE9 does very well. Should that pass have made it through or got picked off by a defender? Should the defender have won that challenge? Should I have scored that goal? If this were an actual match under all of the possible variables to consider, what would be the most probable realistic outcome? The older PES titles do remarkably well. When you string together realistic outcome after realistic outcome, you can really start to enjoy the game.

 

[subtra3t]

This poll is interesting. It just shows people care more about visuals than realism because PES 2021 is not at all realistic or fun.

That is your opinion, and it happens to be an opinion a lot of people disagree with.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinions but it doesn't spark a fruitful discussion when nobody bothers to justify them and just try to bring down other people's opinions.

 

[Torino23]

PES 2018 in my opinion has the best core gameplay. It is the most responsive modern PES game, the dribbling is realistic (unlike PES 2020 & 2021), the defending is smooth, but the only thing letting it down right now is perhaps the shooting mechanic (The PES 2018 Community NEEDS Gameplay Sliders) and it can also get improvements in AI (ex: Improved Difficulty level, different AI play styles like slow build up play/aggressive pressing/ players trying to dribble past multiple opponents before passing and shooting, AI taking more longshots, etc.). Unfortunately this game is now being overlooked in terms of updates, however I'm doing my best to get the game and the PES 2018 EVOWEB community the attention that it needs.

If there are any gameplay slider tools , or "dt18_x64.cpk" editing tools, or AI improvements mods for PES 2018 please post them in the following EVOWEB links:

Gameplay Sliders
dt18_x64.cpk Editing Tools
AI Improvements Mods

Any & and all help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Topaz]

That is your opinion, and it happens to be an opinion a lot of people disagree with.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinions but it doesn't spark a fruitful discussion when nobody bothers to justify them and just try to bring down other people's opinions.

It's fine if you prefer visually aesthetic football. But it doesn't really mean it's realistic. For me realism in video game is more than just how fluid animation looks or how realistic player faces or grass textures are. For me, it's about responsiveness(how closely my input are executed in the gameplay), how much attributes matter(League 2 defenders shouldn't play like prime Maldini and make easy tackles on the likes of Messi), how unique teach team plays(league 2 team should play like prime barca), the different ways CPU can score(not just a defender playing a driven pass to striker all through midfield and the striker turning and scoring with 2 touches regardless of attributes all the time), the way player positions themselves and makes runs(and not just some rigid positioning where players are robots and adhere to the tactics rather than follow basic football fundamentals), the responsiveness of loose balls and dribbling(animation reset whenever CPU steals the ball making the game feel very unresponsive because animation resets), CPU changing tactics based on match scenarios(if they are losing, they shouldn't keep their initial defensive tactics), etc. Based on these, some of the other games are definitely more realistic than PES 2021. Even PES 2019 is more realistic than PES 2021. Some of these are objective truth.

 

[subtra3t]

It's fine if you prefer visually aesthetic football. But it doesn't really mean it's realistic. For me realism in video game is more than just how fluid animation looks or how realistic player faces or grass textures are. For me, it's about responsiveness(how closely my input are executed in the gameplay), how much attributes matter(League 2 defenders shouldn't play like prime Maldini and make easy tackles on the likes of Messi), how unique teach team plays(league 2 team should play like prime barca), the different ways CPU can score(not just a defender playing a driven pass to striker all through midfield and the striker turning and scoring with 2 touches regardless of attributes all the time), the way player positions themselves and makes runs(and not just some rigid positioning where players are robots and adhere to the tactics rather than follow basic football fundamentals), the responsiveness of loose balls and dribbling(animation reset whenever CPU steals the ball making the game feel very unresponsive because animation resets), CPU changing tactics based on match scenarios(if they are losing, they shouldn't keep their initial defensive tactics), etc. Based on these, some of the other games are definitely more realistic than PES 2021. Even PES 2019 is more realistic than PES 2021. Some of these are objective truth.

I cannot comment on PES 21 without mods as I haven't played that version of the game, but the modded version of it that I have played, I can confidently say that it meets most of your requirements. In the copy of Football Life 26 that I have installed, every team plays similar to how they play in real life; Barcelona play a very high defensive line, Bayern plays possession based football. When I play a game of Football Life 25, it feels like a real game of football.

I haven't experienced any of your issues like bad defenders being able to defend amazing players, I suspect that is maybe because you aren't used to how dribbling works in PES 21, it is quite unintuitive, but still more realistic than in earlier editions in my opinion.

Some of these are objective truth.

I think in comparisons like these, there is no objective truth. What may seem painfully obvious to you, perhaps is something that I wouldn't be able to understand in a million years.

There are some people on this forum who think that PES 6 allows for more freedom than in the PS3/PS4 era games. In my opinion that is objectively false due to the limitation of 8 directional movement that exists in the PS2 games. But at the same time there must be some truth to their opinions even if I cannot see it.

 

[user name 99]

My choice has been crystal clear for about a decade, and hasn't changed one bit. It's a game that's not among the choices in the poll - WE10 on PS2. I'll explain.

Since I got my PS2 fixed in about 2015 and started playing old games again, as I slowly fell out of love with current gen games (FIFA 20 was my last), I have been scouring the Internet for of-their-time patches of every PS1 and PS2 ISS/WE/PES variation under the sun, and compare the difference. WE2000U23, ESPN MLS GameNight, WE2002, WE5FE, WE6FE, WE7 International, WE7 Japanese, WE8LE, WE9LE, WEPES 2007 - you name it. I enjoyed a lot of those, even if it was just to check out the databases from each era and how much work was put into those players and kits. And somehow I still went back to WE10 every single time.

It just has everything I look for in a game. The gameplay is the smoothest it has ever been in the PS2 era, even with eight directions I feel I can dictate almost everything I want my player to do to a tee. Games can go in any direction, from tight 0-0s to goal fests. What you've said about each goal being different is correct, there is no "nerfing" of any specific play, all about context and timing.

But there is also an aspect that is absolutely key in a game that I haven't seen mentioned enough in this thread: the variety in game modes. As an example, I love Football Kingdom's gameplay, but if the most interesting thing I can do with it is playing friendlies and can't even set up a proper Kingdom League without teams being sorted randomly, I don't really see the point. WE10 not only has a great Master League, one of the best in the series, it's also got one of the most amazing things PES has ever included: International Challenge. Being from Argentina and playing the entire CONMEBOL World Cup qualifying process, with the chance of making my own national team squad for each game with any player in the game, was always the stuff of dreams for me. The CONCACAF one is also exactly like final round was in real life back then, while Asia and Europe depended more on the teams available but were still really good to try. And WE10 has an advantage over PES 6's IC mode in that the 2005/06 database (and the full Bundesliga of course) meant you could pick a lot of players who were actually part of the qualifying process.

To this day I keep playing WE10 when I have some time on my hands, either just a friendly or still a league campaign or an International Challenge with a random team. And I'll probably keep coming back to it for a long time. It's just too much fun almost 20 years later.

 

[tutu7]

you just ran into the CPU to get the ball back

Actually, PES5 has the highest amount of fouls ever seen in a football videogame. Even if the system is archaic, I can't think of a single game with a better implemented collision system

there was only one type of shot, you couldn't even finesse shot until pes 6

Finesse shots exist since PES4 (if you don't consider special Del Piero shot, which existed even before)

the AI teammates are nowhere near as organized, cant press, cant make clever runs without you spamming 1-2 over and over

Midfield in PES5 is much, much more tight than in PES21. Again, I don't think there is a single game with a similar amount of midfield battle.

Manual passing does exist, and it has more than 8 directions (pass power can be modified, too).

Since you mentioned them, fluid formations exist in PES5 (I don't remember if they were added even before) and they can be chosen during the match without even pausing the game.
Pressing intensity can be regulated, just like defence line height, offside trap etc.


PES5 doesn't represent real football for obvious reasons, but I truly think it is way more balanced than almost any other game that came after it. The only issue (a massive one, unfortunately) is the toothless CPU AI. Still, especially when played against another human, it displays a balanced, unpredictable and fun gameplay, unlike modern football game iterations

 

[steff]

Actually, PES5 has the highest amount of fouls ever seen in a football videogame. Even if the system is archaic, I can't think of a single game with a better implemented collision system


Finesse shots exist since PES4 (if you don't consider special Del Piero shot, which existed even before)


Midfield in PES5 is much, much more tight than in PES21. Again, I don't think there is a single game with a similar amount of midfield battle.

Manual passing does exist, and it has more than 8 directions (pass power can be modified, too).

Since you mentioned them, fluid formations exist in PES5 (I don't remember if they were added even before) and they can be chosen during the match without even pausing the game.
Pressing intensity can be regulated, just like defence line height, offside trap etc.


PES5 doesn't represent real football for obvious reasons, but I truly think it is way more balanced than almost any other game that came after it. The only issue (a massive one, unfortunately) is the toothless CPU AI. Still, especially when played against another human, it displays a balanced, unpredictable and fun gameplay, unlike modern football game iterations

I loved PES5, PES 6 edges it for me for the exact reason you mentioned, loads of fouls and handballs IIRC? It was almost perfection.

 

[FC Bayern]

I loved PES5, PES 6 edges it for me for the exact reason you mentioned, loads of fouls and handballs IIRC? It was almost perfection.

If PES 6 had the kit selection thing that PES 5 does, then it would be so close to a perfect game to me

 

[tutu7]

I loved PES5, PES 6 edges it for me for the exact reason you mentioned, loads of fouls and handballs IIRC? It was almost perfection.

PES 6 doesn't have handballs as far as I remember. They were implemented in PES 3 (not in the brightest way, though), I think.
In my opinion, PES 6 has better animations, better graphics and a smoother gameplay than PES 5. Finally, it has a huge modding scene. Unfortunately (at least from my perspective), it also has a more arcade gameplay, way less fouls, dumbed down physical interactions, less deep tactics and the infamous cutback goal. That animation, which causes overpowered shots, is so broken that it ruins the experience I have with this game.
By the way, I don't know if someone managed to fix this issue

 

[Martan]

My choice has been crystal clear for about a decade, and hasn't changed one bit. It's a game that's not among the choices in the poll - WE10 on PS2. I'll explain.

Since I got my PS2 fixed in about 2015 and started playing old games again, as I slowly fell out of love with current gen games (FIFA 20 was my last), I have been scouring the Internet for of-their-time patches of every PS1 and PS2 ISS/WE/PES variation under the sun, and compare the difference. WE2000U23, ESPN MLS GameNight, WE2002, WE5FE, WE6FE, WE7 International, WE7 Japanese, WE8LE, WE9LE, WEPES 2007 - you name it. I enjoyed a lot of those, even if it was just to check out the databases from each era and how much work was put into those players and kits. And somehow I still went back to WE10 every single time.

It just has everything I look for in a game. The gameplay is the smoothest it has ever been in the PS2 era, even with eight directions I feel I can dictate almost everything I want my player to do to a tee. Games can go in any direction, from tight 0-0s to goal fests. What you've said about each goal being different is correct, there is no "nerfing" of any specific play, all about context and timing.

But there is also an aspect that is absolutely key in a game that I haven't seen mentioned enough in this thread: the variety in game modes. As an example, I love Football Kingdom's gameplay, but if the most interesting thing I can do with it is playing friendlies and can't even set up a proper Kingdom League without teams being sorted randomly, I don't really see the point. WE10 not only has a great Master League, one of the best in the series, it's also got one of the most amazing things PES has ever included: International Challenge. Being from Argentina and playing the entire CONMEBOL World Cup qualifying process, with the chance of making my own national team squad for each game with any player in the game, was always the stuff of dreams for me. The CONCACAF one is also exactly like final round was in real life back then, while Asia and Europe depended more on the teams available but were still really good to try. And WE10 has an advantage over PES 6's IC mode in that the 2005/06 database (and the full Bundesliga of course) meant you could pick a lot of players who were actually part of the qualifying process.

To this day I keep playing WE10 when I have some time on my hands, either just a friendly or still a league campaign or an International Challenge with a random team. And I'll probably keep coming back to it for a long time. It's just too much fun almost 20 years later.

Great summary! What's your patch of choice for WE10?