Best Football game of all time

[Lon Barron]

PES 6.

Back when PES 6 was new, I hated it and kept playing PES 5. But in recent years I permanently switched to PES 6, realizing just how arcade-style the PES 5 shooting system is. After all these years, I really just needed to get the ball for 0.1s anywhere within 25m of the goal to semi-reliably score.
PES 6 feels MUCH more realistic in that regard, requiring you to have control over the ball to get off a clean shot - or else it will go into the sky.

 

[user name 99]

Great summary! What's your patch of choice for WE10?

I'm using something of a combination of @jackallan's Champions League 2005/06 patch with my own edits into the KM Mix patch. I've added a massive load of preset and in-game edited faces to it, for example, as well as creating a lot of new players, Crystal Palace and Luton Town, etc. Only thing I'm missing is scoreboards for all game modes, which I had them made for PES 6 PC but need adapting for the WE10 PS2 multi-scoreboard.

 

[Martan]

Any chance you could share ISO file for us?

 

[tikijaka]

Any chance you could share ISO file for us?

Thread 'WE10 KM Mix Patch 1.2 + ULTIMATE OF Winter 2006 by ogaitnas99'
https://evoweb.uk/threads/we10-km-mix-patch-1-2-ultimate-of-winter-2006-by-ogaitnas99.74913/

It’s excellent. 👍

 

[user name 99]

That's actually not up to date with the latest work I put into it! Will upload my current version shortly.

 

[Jowson]

The best football game is:

BEST PES - WE6FE (Gamecube)
BEST FIFA - FIFA 16
BEST OTHER - SWOS

But none are as good as Football Manager

Never understood how/why people compare Fifa and Pes to FM. Not having a go, just find it really odd as one you actually play football and one you don't. Like...I'm obsessed with football and play both for totally different reasons.

 

[Chris Davies]

Never understood how/why people compare Fifa and Pes to FM. Not having a go, just find it really odd as one you actually play football and one you don't. Like...I'm obsessed with football and play both for totally different reasons.

I get where you're coming from, but I feel the same as @bsmaff. For me personally, it's for two key reasons.

1) FM has been (for us, up until this year's release) so good, deep, addictive and fun, year in year out. In all that time, no "action" football game has been. And they both represent the same sport after all.

2) I crave that FM realism in a game you can play - on every level (from the way the tactical match-ups work, to player management, and every other detail).

For all the talk of how FM's match engine is overly reliant on a few attributes (which I'm not disputing), it still produces a much more realistic looking game of football with a lot more restrictions on the accuracy players are capable of - and the thought of being forced into building up the play etc. (like the old PES days) rather than being in on goal in a few passes over and over again, is a dream.

My dream was always old-school PES-style gameplay with Football Manager bolted on the side (with all its complexity). We never got that, and now it's 2025 I want something that utilises the tech available to make a true breath-of-fresh-air gameplay wise, with FM bolted on.

 

[Kopite1990]

This probably did not warrant it’s own thread but it did get me thinking in the context of this topic and retro gaming in general:



I know retro gaming will always exist, nostalgia is a powerful thing. However I do think there is a massive increase of retro games being modded and updated, even outside of forums like this.

Surely it is reflective of the sorry state of current football games on the market today.

 

[Flipper the Priest]

This probably did not warrant it’s own thread but it did get me thinking in the context of this topic and retro gaming in general:



I know retro gaming will always exist, nostalgia is a powerful thing. However I do think there is a massive increase of retro games being modded and updated, even outside of forums like this.

Surely it is reflective of the sorry state of current football games on the market today.

I'm always quick to rubbish nostalgia. Nostalgia doesn't carry hours of playing and modding games decades after release. That's plain old quality doing the talking!

 

[Kopite1990]

I'm always quick to rubbish nostalgia. Nostalgia doesn't carry hours of playing and modding games decades after release. That's plain old quality doing the talking!

Oh I totally agree, games felt fundamentally better made and designed too.

I guess my wider point, which I probably didn’t articulate well enough, was exactly that. More and more people are being drawn back to these old titles because they were just better games.

 

[bsmaff]

Never understood how/why people compare Fifa and Pes to FM. Not having a go, just find it really odd as one you actually play football and one you don't. Like...I'm obsessed with football and play both for totally different reasons.

They aren't really comparable.
This is called the best Football game ever thread which is Football Manager IMO - Until FM26.

I just gave my opinion that WE on Gamecube was the best version of PES.
Best FIFA is probably 16 as due to mod support and still looks graphically pretty good today unlike 14.
SWOS is the best other game not in the two main franchises - And IMO the most fun ever to be had in a football game, especially with mates + Has the best career management mode of any football game ever.

However FM is the only constant in my life the last 32 years, games come and go but FM has always been there and every year gets better.
Every year FM comes out, I play around 200+ hours.

 

[FC Bayern]

The FM debate depends one what you see a 'football game' as. If it is all kinds of football in all it's game types, then FM is up there, alongside CM also. If you see 'football game' meaning games in which you as the user 'play' football, then FM/CM are irrelevant. I say this as some might title the likes of FM/CM/LMA/PES Management as 'management games' or 'management sims'. In the similar way that GTA and the Sims are about people's lives, but played in totally different ways. Wikipedia labels FM as a 'sports management' game, and PES as a 'sports (association football) game. I personally don't see FM as a football game, purely because you don't directly control the action on the pitch.

 

[user name 99]

Oh I totally agree, games felt fundamentally better made and designed too.

I guess my wider point, which I probably didn’t articulate well enough, was exactly that. More and more people are being drawn back to these old titles because they were just better games.

Since I always accepted opinions will never truly be objective or 100% consensual among everyone for obvious reasons, I have my own thinking about it, which is that for the last ~5 years, maybe more, I (and maybe many of us too) have stopped being the main target market for football games.

Like I said before, I value gameplay and the variety in offline game modes above everything in a football game. And I understand that's not where the money is made, quite on the contrary in fact. Games today are made for an always-online audience willing to spend money on microtransactions to help them win or give that impression.

That's fair enough, people keep buying the same game in droves with little to no change and in detriment of all offline modes. It just sucks that now that's the only audience football games cater to. And that's why I go back to the old ones.

 

[Dooky]

That's actually not up to date with the latest work I put into it! Will upload my current version shortly.

Yes, because I've noticed some bugs, where the faces of some players turn red, blue, or white during a match.
in this version "WE10 KM Mix Patch 1.2"

 

[user name 99]

That's so weird, never actually seen it myself. If you got any screenshots of that please post them on the thread of the patch.

 

[Martan]

Thread 'WE10 KM Mix Patch 1.2 + ULTIMATE OF Winter 2006 by ogaitnas99'
https://evoweb.uk/threads/we10-km-mix-patch-1-2-ultimate-of-winter-2006-by-ogaitnas99.74913/

It’s excellent. 👍

Finaly I found time to try it.

What a refreshing mix of PES 5, PES 4 and WE 9LE. Bit fast but what a variety of plays and goals. Love it!

Would love to see PC version of this so we can import stadiums, scoreboards etc. via kitserver

 

[Dooky]

That's so weird, never actually seen it myself. If you got any screenshots of that please post them on the thread of the patch.

@user name 99 here is the result

 

[tikijaka]

That's actually not up to date with the latest work I put into it! Will upload my current version shortly.

Looking forward to this! 🎉

 

[Colon]

I cannot comment on PES 21 without mods as I haven't played that version of the game, but the modded version of it that I have played, I can confidently say that it meets most of your requirements. In the copy of Football Life 26 that I have installed, every team plays similar to how they play in real life; Barcelona play a very high defensive line, Bayern plays possession based football. When I play a game of Football Life 25, it feels like a real game of football.

I haven't experienced any of your issues like bad defenders being able to defend amazing players, I suspect that is maybe because you aren't used to how dribbling works in PES 21, it is quite unintuitive, but still more realistic than in earlier editions in my opinion.


I think in comparisons like these, there is no objective truth. What may seem painfully obvious to you, perhaps is something that I wouldn't be able to understand in a million years.

There are some people on this forum who think that PES 6 allows for more freedom than in the PS3/PS4 era games. In my opinion that is objectively false due to the limitation of 8 directional movement that exists in the PS2 games. But at the same time there must be some truth to their opinions even if I cannot see it.

First of all comparing the gameplay modded version to non modded games is silly. And the "you don't know how the xy mechanic works" argument is so overused. Sorry, you are not on to something, that we don't know. It has been 5 years since PES 21 was released. More like 6 years, because PES21 is mostly the same as PES20. You think the people who don't like PES21 are just too dumb to get used to the dribbling? I would argue that a game, that is as good as you claim, doesn't need that much time to be figured out by everyone.

PES 21 can be a good game. Usually for 1-2 matches, after that it gets boring, because every situation follows the same patterns. The CPU is usually playing the same 2-3 passes and then have a shot from the top of the box. Which you can't defend on higher difficulties. Midfield and high pressure is also not existing, you have all the time and space before entering the final third. And this is on FUMA.
Scoring does not feel satisfying, no matter if I use manual, advanced or basic. Since changing to the FOX engine, shooting mechanics have been bad in general, because there is almost no variation. Every shot is either on target or misses the goal just wide. There are no badly misshit or missplaced shots. You can shoot with full power and the ball will not fly 10 meters above the goal once. No matter, which player you use. How is that considered as realistic?

PES 1-6 are limited from our 2025 perspective. But those games were (on the pitch) ahead of their time and used the power of the technology to its maximum. Back then before new releases the conversations were not: "What will they fix?", it was "How much better will the new game be?".
Because it was made with passion and love for football and we knew Konami would deliver something great. Even today with the 8 directional movement, no match feels the same. Could you say the same thing for PES 21? I don't think it was the best product that could have been released in 2020. Gameplay wise and content wise.

 

[subtra3t]

First of all comparing the gameplay modded version to non modded games is silly. And the "you don't know how the xy mechanic works" argument is so overused. Sorry, you are not on to something, that we don't know. It has been 5 years since PES 21 was released. More like 6 years, because PES21 is mostly the same as PES20. You think the people who don't like PES21 are just too dumb to get used to the dribbling? I would argue that a game, that is as good as you claim, doesn't need that much time to be figured out by everyone.

PES 21 can be a good game. Usually for 1-2 matches, after that it gets boring, because every situation follows the same patterns. The CPU is usually playing the same 2-3 passes and then have a shot from the top of the box. Which you can't defend on higher difficulties. Midfield and high pressure is also not existing, you have all the time and space before entering the final third. And this is on FUMA.
Scoring does not feel satisfying, no matter if I use manual, advanced or basic. Since changing to the FOX engine, shooting mechanics have been bad in general, because there is almost no variation. Every shot is either on target or misses the goal just wide. There are no badly misshit or missplaced shots. You can shoot with full power and the ball will not fly 10 meters above the goal once. No matter, which player you use. How is that considered as realistic?

PES 1-6 are limited from our 2025 perspective. But those games were (on the pitch) ahead of their time and used the power of the technology to its maximum. Back then before new releases the conversations were not: "What will they fix?", it was "How much better will the new game be?".
Because it was made with passion and love for football and we knew Konami would deliver something great. Even today with the 8 directional movement, no match feels the same. Could you say the same thing for PES 21? I don't think it was the best product that could have been released in 2020. Gameplay wise and content wise.

This seems like a very silly reply to me.

You're putting words in my mouth by saying that I think people who don't like PES 21 are too dumb to get used to the dribbling. I've never said anything remotely similar to that.

For you, shooting is unsatisfying in PES 21 but apparently PES 6 is good in that regard? The same game where you can take a lightly powered shot with a player with amazing shot technique/power and have him blast it into row Z when he's stationary and under no pressure?

I don't know about you but to me that is far less realistic than a game with multiple different types of shots and where mishits are still frequent, contrary to what you're saying.

To you no two matches played in that generation of games feel the same. I feel the same about PES 21.

How do you know the game wasn't made with passion? This is a very silly metric when neither of us have ever been involved in the development of the games. And before PES 21, every single installment included new features and improved gameplay in my opinion.

 

[Colon]

This seems like a very silly reply to me.

You're putting words in my mouth by saying that I think people who don't like PES 21 are too dumb to get used to the dribbling. I've never said anything remotely similar to that.

For you, shooting is unsatisfying in PES 21 but apparently PES 6 is good in that regard? The same game where you can take a lightly powered shot with a player with amazing shot technique/power and have him blast it into row Z when he's stationary and under no pressure?

I don't know about you but to me that is far less realistic than a game with multiple different types of shots and where mishits are still frequent, contrary to what you're saying.

To you no two matches played in that generation of games feel the same. I feel the same about PES 21.

How do you know the game wasn't made with passion? This is a very silly metric when neither of us have ever been involved in the development of the games. And before PES 21, every single installment included new features and improved gameplay in my opinion.

You claimed that someone isn't familiar with the dribbling mechanics in PES21. Yes, you did not say that anyone is too dumb. I asked you, if you think that. Because saying someone isn't familiar with the mechanics after 5-6 years implies that the problem must be with the player and not the game.

Yes, I think that is very realistic. If you watch a whole season of real life football (and not only through highlights), you will see, that even the best players in the world will make shocking mistakes once in a while, even when they are under no pressure. It's the same in PES 6 and real life: It can happen anytime, but it usually doesn't.

Claiming that PES21 has more shot variety than the PS2 PES titles is just wrong. Did you play the old titles back then? Or are you too young and just tried them out for a few hours? In the older titles you had every kind of goal. Bullets to the top corners or hard low shots, finess shots high and low, low shots that just barely, slowly went past the keepers, deflected shots of the gk/goalposts/other players, chip balls and so on. You even could go around the GKs, which is basically non existent in newer PES Titles, because the GK AI is bad. I could write a whole post only about the shot variation in those games. The best part: Even CPU Goals were like that.
You don't see this kind of variation in PES21. Not for the player and especially not from the CPU.

For your last part: I can tell that it was not made with passion, because PES21 is basically a patched PES20. Every update they made to the game, could have been a patch. There was even less content than in PES20.

 

[Sany023]

PES 1-6 are limited from our 2025 perspective. But those games were (on the pitch) ahead of their time and used the power of the technology to its maximum. Back then before new releases the conversations were not: "What will they fix?", it was "How much better will the new game be?".
Because it was made with passion and love for football and we knew Konami would deliver something great. Even today with the 8 directional movement, no match feels the same. Could you say the same thing for PES 21? I don't think it was the best product that could have been released in 2020. Gameplay wise and content wise.

Fully agree with this statements.

 

[subtra3t]

You claimed that someone isn't familiar with the dribbling mechanics in PES21. Yes, you did not say that anyone is too dumb. I asked you, if you think that. Because saying someone isn't familiar with the mechanics after 5-6 years implies that the problem must be with the player and not the game.

Yes, I think that is very realistic. If you watch a whole season of real life football (and not only through highlights), you will see, that even the best players in the world will make shocking mistakes once in a while, even when they are under no pressure. It's the same in PES 6 and real life: It can happen anytime, but it usually doesn't.

Claiming that PES21 has more shot variety than the PS2 PES titles is just wrong. Did you play the old titles back then? Or are you too young and just tried them out for a few hours? In the older titles you had every kind of goal. Bullets to the top corners or hard low shots, finess shots high and low, low shots that just barely, slowly went past the keepers, deflected shots of the gk/goalposts/other players, chip balls and so on. You even could go around the GKs, which is basically non existent in newer PES Titles, because the GK AI is bad. I could write a whole post only about the shot variation in those games. The best part: Even CPU Goals were like that.
You don't see this kind of variation in PES21. Not for the player and especially not from the CPU.

For your last part: I can tell that it was not made with passion, because PES21 is basically a patched PES20. Every update they made to the game, could have been a patch. There was even less content than in PES20.

I for one don't think it's realistic for strikers with amazing stats to be hoofing half of their shots in a good position. At least PES 5 was better in that regard. The PES 6 shooting mechanic is just plain unrealistic.

I don't think you've played PES 21 a lot because every single shot type you mentioned can be done in any modern PES game. And then some more, it has knuckle shots and rising shots and dipping shots. I don't know what games you've been playing but on PES 21 it is definitely possible to run past the keeper to score, I've scored many goals like this and seen other players score goals like that too. And yes, the CPU can score such goals too.

The reason PES 21 didn't have new features was because Konami was developing eFootball. But before PES 21, in every iteration from PES 15 to PES 20, there were significant improvements made to master league, and almost always equally as significant improvements to gameplay as well.

 

[simogto90]

My God... I played some matches on Pes 2021 today, superstar difficulty, and i can't understand why people love It so much.
It lacks variety, it physics is bad, a.i it's bad, it's not challenging but scripted, unresponsive, rigid...
In my opinion it should not be in a poll called "best football game of all time".

Most overrated football game ever and one of the worse football experience ever

 

[Sany023]

My God... I played some matches on Pes 2021 today, superstar difficulty, and i can't understand why people love It so much.
It lacks variety, it physics is bad, a.i it's bad, it's not challenging but scripted, unresponsive, rigid...
In my opinion it should not be in a poll called "best football game of all time".

Most overrated football game ever and one of the worse football experience ever

Exactly, it is as is.
But with few mods you can get little much smooth gameplay with nice picture on the screen of monitor.
And in some cases it can "a good soccer fix" with patch, that include interesting league for you.
But still your words will be vaild, yet gameplay can be little better.

P.S. Also with patches of whole Evoweb team PES 2021 better in much times ...

 

[Colon]

I for one don't think it's realistic for strikers with amazing stats to be hoofing half of their shots in a good position. At least PES 5 was better in that regard. The PES 6 shooting mechanic is just plain unrealistic.

I don't think you've played PES 21 a lot because every single shot type you mentioned can be done in any modern PES game. And then some more, it has knuckle shots and rising shots and dipping shots. I don't know what games you've been playing but on PES 21 it is definitely possible to run past the keeper to score, I've scored many goals like this and seen other players score goals like that too. And yes, the CPU can score such goals too.

The reason PES 21 didn't have new features was because Konami was developing eFootball. But before PES 21, in every iteration from PES 15 to PES 20, there were significant improvements made to master league, and almost always equally as significant improvements to gameplay as well.

The part in bold is another statement that is just not true.

But with your last paragraph I can't take you serious anyways... Because they developed eFootball, PES 21 was nothing more than a patch? Did you see the kind of state eFootball was in when it got released? And after 4 years it is still merely a beta. PES 21 was just a last cash grab before going F2P. Even if you think the game is more realistic or not, this alone should tell you, that it was not made with passion.

Exactly, it is as is.
But with few mods you can get little much smooth gameplay with nice picture on the screen of monitor.
And in some cases it can "a good soccer fix" with patch, that include interesting league for you.
But still your words will be vaild, yet gameplay can be little better.

P.S. Also with patches of whole Evoweb team PES 2021 better in much times ...

I think for the newer generation of PES Fans, this is the most important thing. Like I said, the gameplay can be good for a short while. But while older PES Titles reflect more what you see in a full match, PES 21 is more some kind of TikTok Highlight Reel. There is nothing gritty about it, just too robotic and wants to be too perfect.

 

[normazimuth]

I could write a whole post only about the shot variation in those games. The best part: Even CPU Goals were like that.
You don't see this kind of variation in PES21. Not for the player and especially not from the CPU.

Completely agree. The lack of CPU variety of shots in particular, where stats play no part and basically every shot is hit perfectly with only about 3 different scripted outcomes. The CPU shooting in PES6 and earlier is contextual and stat based, which results in far more variety of outcomes and helps makes the matches far less predictable and repetitive.

 

[simogto90]

The part in bold is another statement that is just not true.

But with your last paragraph I can't take you serious anyways... Because they developed eFootball, PES 21 was nothing more than a patch? Did you see the kind of state eFootball was in when it got released? And after 4 years it is still merely a beta. PES 21 was just a last cash grab before going F2P. Even if you think the game is more realistic or not, this alone should tell you, that it was not made with passion.


I think for the newer generation of PES Fans, this is the most important thing. Like I said, the gameplay can be good for a short while. But while older PES Titles reflect more what you see in a full match, PES 21 is more some kind of TikTok Highlight Reel. There is nothing gritty about it, just too robotic and wants to be too perfect.

Exactly this: it's a game good to look and bad to play.
I really would love to know, from people who appreciate It, what features from the game shines in their opinion.
Because all fundamentals are bad or mediocre at best:
- A.i Is bad, expecially midfield one, and it's easy to see dumb things on the pitch.
- physics is bad, expecially collision system, where two players interact and start a animation triggering that make you win or lose the ball without actually fight for It.
- defending Is awful. Defenders trigger animations in proximity of the ball, and drain the ball from your feet.
- unresponsive and unreliable animation makes dribbling not rewarding ( i am able to dribble).
- bad physicalty and defending bring another problem: no fouls.
- there are few patterns you can score, because the game reward only these. It kills the variety on the pitch.
- variety which is missed from shooting too. Every shoot Is almost the same.
- player individuality are there but the game is so much bad designed and they have no impact on the pitch...
It's all about find the good formation set up, fitting the rigid players "play style" and then everything it will become more easy to do on the pitch. Mechanical skill ( i mean the skill with the pad) it's not rewarded like old PS2 Pes.
- the game is heavly scripted.

PS2 titles, expecially we9le/Pes5, even with their only 8 directions and other limitations, shines at everything i talked above.

 

[tutu7]

Exactly this: it's a game good to look and bad to play.
I really would love to know, from people who appreciate It, what features from the game shines in their opinion.
Because all fundamentals are bad or mediocre at best:
- A.i Is bad, expecially midfield one, and it's easy to see dumb things on the pitch.
- physics is bad, expecially collision system, where two players interact and start a animation triggering that make you win or lose the ball without actually fight for It.
- defending Is awful. Defenders trigger animations in proximity of the ball, and drain the ball from your feet.
- unresponsive and unreliable animation makes dribbling not rewarding ( i am able to dribble).
- bad physicalty and defending bring another problem: no fouls.
- there are few patterns you can score, because the game reward only these. It kills the variety on the pitch.
- variety which is missed from shooting too. Every shoot Is almost the same.
- player individuality are there but the game is so much bad designed and they have no impact on the pitch...
It's all about find the good formation set up, fitting the rigid players "play style" and then everything it will become more easy to do on the pitch. Mechanical skill ( i mean the skill with the pad) it's not rewarded like old PS2 Pes.
- the game is heavly scripted.

PS2 titles, expecially we9le/Pes5, even with their only 8 directions and other limitations, shines at everything i talked above.

There are two games that objectively stand out as the best: FIFA16 and, especially, PES5/WE9(LE). These two games don't need many mods to reach a top-tier gameplay (my personal favourite is WE9LE modded). I agree that vanilla PES21 is very, very overrated, for the reasons listed above.
That said, when modded properly, PES21 can become one of the best titles out there, including modded ones. Sure, it has its problems, but it can be way better than its vanilla version.



This game is meant to be played with FUMA. I'm still very bad at it, lol

 

[user name 99]

Hi everyone! As teased before, I've completed the WE10 crossover patch I had been talking about, this time fully licensed and with so many more new faces! Here it is 👇🏼

https://evoweb.uk/threads/we10-km-mix-champions-league-edition-jackallan-x-ogaitnas99.104010/