Best Football game of all time

[subtra3t]

The part in bold is another statement that is just not true.

I don't know what to say except that it is.

But with your last paragraph I can't take you serious anyways... Because they developed eFootball, PES 21 was nothing more than a patch? Did you see the kind of state eFootball was in when it got released? And after 4 years it is still merely a beta. PES 21 was just a last cash grab before going F2P. Even if you think the game is more realistic or not, this alone should tell you, that it was not made with passion.

What are you even trying to say? I said that the reason PES 21 is only a minor improvement upon PES 20 is because they were developing eFootball. I'm not trying to say that eFootball is a good game (now, or upon release). I don't know where you're getting this from really.

I think for the newer generation of PES Fans, this is the most important thing. Like I said, the gameplay can be good for a short while. But while older PES Titles reflect more what you see in a full match, PES 21 is more some kind of TikTok Highlight Reel. There is nothing gritty about it, just too robotic and wants to be too perfect.

I wholeheartedly disagree. To me the midfield battles in say PES 15 are far superior to those in the older PES games which are limited by their time. I'm not saying that's a bad thing.

 

[Colon]

I don't know what to say except that it is.



What are you even trying to say? I said that the reason PES 21 is only a minor improvement upon PES 20 is because they were developing eFootball. I'm not trying to say that eFootball is a good game (now, or upon release). I don't know where you're getting this from really.


I wholeheartedly disagree. To me the midfield battles in say PES 15 are far superior to those in the older PES games which are limited by their time. I'm not saying that's a bad thing.

No it's not. Players with amazing stats will not have missplaced or awkward shots half of the time. That is just a hyperbole by you.

Okay for you again: You said PES 21 was probably still made with passion and the only reason, that it was merely a small update over PES 20 was, that they were developing eFootball. But at release eFootball was so much worse than PES 21, that I really don't know, what they worked on. So looking at eFootball, I don't find that to be a good reason, that PES21 was a full priced game with only small updates and less content. I never said, you think eFootball is a good game.

So let's take a look at those great midfield battles in PES 15, because it is your example.



There is not one battle in the midfield. Every player can pass the ball and run without being tackled or under pressure, and every time both the CPU or the Player gets past the midfield with 2-3 passes. Stop making things up about the Fox Engine PES Titles, that are not true.



Or take this FL26 Video as another example. It is literally the first video I found after searching for FL26. Look at the first goal at 4:19. The player makes 2 passes through midfield and is in front of the 16 yard box, because there is zero pressure. Against a team like Atletico Madrid. So even gameplay mods can't fix this.



Now compare it to this gameplay. There is pressure on every player, there are battles, pushes etc. Also there are fewer open passes into the final third, so even the CPU has to play it around and is not in the final third with 2-3 passes every time. These are the basics of real life football. Having to create an open pass and not just walking and passing through the midfield like there are no defenders.
You want to tell me that PES 15-PES21 is better/more realistic than this? Those games look better, but they don't have the football basics down, like the older games do.

 

[Placebo]

Anco's Player Manager 2, looooooved it back in the day and I still think of it more fondly than any Fifa/WE/PES.

 

[subtra3t]

No it's not. Players with amazing stats will not have missplaced or awkward shots half of the time. That is just a hyperbole by you.

Okay for you again: You said PES 21 was probably still made with passion and the only reason, that it was merely a small update over PES 20 was, that they were developing eFootball. But at release eFootball was so much worse than PES 21, that I really don't know, what they worked on. So looking at eFootball, I don't find that to be a good reason, that PES21 was a full priced game with only small updates and less content. I never said, you think eFootball is a good game.

So let's take a look at those great midfield battles in PES 15, because it is your example.



There is not one battle in the midfield. Every player can pass the ball and run without being tackled or under pressure, and every time both the CPU or the Player gets past the midfield with 2-3 passes. Stop making things up about the Fox Engine PES Titles, that are not true.



Or take this FL26 Video as another example. It is literally the first video I found after searching for FL26. Look at the first goal at 4:19. The player makes 2 passes through midfield and is in front of the 16 yard box, because there is zero pressure. Against a team like Atletico Madrid. So even gameplay mods can't fix this.



Now compare it to this gameplay. There is pressure on every player, there are battles, pushes etc. Also there are fewer open passes into the final third, so even the CPU has to play it around and is not in the final third with 2-3 passes every time. These are the basics of real life football. Having to create an open pass and not just walking and passing through the midfield like there are no defenders.
You want to tell me that PES 15-PES21 is better/more realistic than this? Those games look better, but they don't have the football basics down, like the older games do.

If you want to cherry pick examples of bad gameplay, I can do that about the PS2 games as well. You're judging those games badly just because I praised them. I don't know why you're so upset about a specific generation of the games.

Do you realise how much effort it takes to create a game? Even a game like eFootball, creating it in an entirely new engine is a massive feat that takes millions of man hours and even more money. If you are not aware of the amount of effort it takes to create a game it is perhaps better to not comment. Even a flawed game like eFootball takes a ludicrous amount of effort and money to manage and create.

Where are you even getting that gameplay mods can't fix FL 26's gameplay? You saw one short video about the game and proceeded to make a sweeping statement that no gameplay mod can fix it.

 

[Colon]

If you want to cherry pick examples of bad gameplay, I can do that about the PS2 games as well. You're judging those games badly just because I praised them. I don't know why you're so upset about a specific generation of the games.

Do you realise how much effort it takes to create a game? Even a game like eFootball, creating it in an entirely new engine is a massive feat that takes millions of man hours and even more money. If you are not aware of the amount of effort it takes to create a game it is perhaps better to not comment. Even a flawed game like eFootball takes a ludicrous amount of effort and money to manage and create.

Where are you even getting that gameplay mods can't fix FL 26's gameplay? You saw one short video about the game and proceeded to make a sweeping statement that no gameplay mod can fix it.

It has absolutely nothing to do with you. Weird victim mentality.

It is not cherry picking when you see the exact same Problems in a Video of PES 15 and PES 21. But of course you won‘t say anything about the points I made.

I can make that statement, because I see the exact same Problems in that clip, that I experience while playing the vanilla Game. Even you should understand that. Anyways, have fun with PES21. But stop telling others they just don’t understand mechanics if they don’t like the Game as much as you do.

 

[leo2626]

First of all comparing the gameplay modded version to non modded games is silly. And the "you don't know how the xy mechanic works" argument is so overused. Sorry, you are not on to something, that we don't know. It has been 5 years since PES 21 was released. More like 6 years, because PES21 is mostly the same as PES20. You think the people who don't like PES21 are just too dumb to get used to the dribbling? I would argue that a game, that is as good as you claim, doesn't need that much time to be figured out by everyone.

PES 21 can be a good game. Usually for 1-2 matches, after that it gets boring, because every situation follows the same patterns. The CPU is usually playing the same 2-3 passes and then have a shot from the top of the box. Which you can't defend on higher difficulties. Midfield and high pressure is also not existing, you have all the time and space before entering the final third. And this is on FUMA.
Scoring does not feel satisfying, no matter if I use manual, advanced or basic. Since changing to the FOX engine, shooting mechanics have been bad in general, because there is almost no variation. Every shot is either on target or misses the goal just wide. There are no badly misshit or missplaced shots. You can shoot with full power and the ball will not fly 10 meters above the goal once. No matter, which player you use. How is that considered as realistic?

PES 1-6 are limited from our 2025 perspective. But those games were (on the pitch) ahead of their time and used the power of the technology to its maximum. Back then before new releases the conversations were not: "What will they fix?", it was "How much better will the new game be?".
Because it was made with passion and love for football and we knew Konami would deliver something great. Even today with the 8 directional movement, no match feels the same. Could you say the same thing for PES 21? I don't think it was the best product that could have been released in 2020. Gameplay wise and content wise.

Which game or mod do you believe addresses the midfield issue better ?

 

[subtra3t]

It has absolutely nothing to do with you. Weird victim mentality.

It is not cherry picking when you see the exact same Problems in a Video of PES 15 and PES 21. But of course you won‘t say anything about the points I made.

I can make that statement, because I see the exact same Problems in that clip, that I experience while playing the vanilla Game. Even you should understand that. Anyways, have fun with PES21. But stop telling others they just don’t understand mechanics if they don’t like the Game as much as you do.

I don't know why you are getting so offended here honestly. If you want to argue with someone the least you can do it is do it politely ffs.

You haven't once acknowledged the point I made about PES 21 having more shot types such as knuckle shot and dipping shots, and you have the audacity to tell me I'm ignoring your points.

Through out this discussion I have been polite and it has you who's lashing out passive aggressively with snide comments. Please, if you want to discuss something with someone at least have the manners to not insult them while you do so. It's the bare minimum.

 

[Tom]

Come on, guys, hug it out. Christmas is around the corner, do it for baby Jesus.

 

[Prankster]

Try to bait them on everyone

 

[Prankster]

I don't know why you are getting so offended here honestly. If you want to argue with someone the least you can do it is do it politely ffs.

You haven't once acknowledged the point I made about PES 21 having more shot types such as knuckle shot and dipping shots, and you have the audacity to tell me I'm ignoring your points.

Through out this discussion I have been polite and it has you who's lashing out passive aggressively with snide comments. Please, if you want to discuss something with someone at least have the manners to not insult them while you do so. It's the bare minimum.

@subtra3t it looks like Colon just got you in trouble with Tom

 

[FC Bayern]

@subtra3t it looks like Colon just got you in trouble with Tom

View attachment 392030

I'm not getting involved, but I've had 'dealings' with that guy before. It'll be a case here as everywhere, there will be people you really like, people you like & people that just, as we say in Scotland, do your head in.

I'm going to throw another game into the mix for possible discussion. Virtua Pro Football. I've always enjoyed playing that game. Kinda PES-ish, with a gimmicky set-piece mechanic not too dissimilar to Madden. It also had a licensed Dutch second tier, if I remember correctly.

 

[user name 99]

If I had a nickel for every big Japanese game developer that dipped their toes into football in the mid-2000s with a surprisingly good enough game that unfortunately didn't sell well enough to start a series I'd have two nickels, which isn't much but it's weird that it happened twice.

 

[sleevel]

I'm not getting involved, but I've had 'dealings' with that guy before. It'll be a case here as everywhere, there will be people you really like, people you like & people that just, as we say in Scotland, do your head in.

I'm going to throw another game into the mix for possible discussion. Virtua Pro Football. I've always enjoyed playing that game. Kinda PES-ish, with a gimmicky set-piece mechanic not too dissimilar to Madden. It also had a licensed Dutch second tier, if I remember correctly.
View attachment 392039

Now you give me Dutch 3rd division and you’ll get my interest.

That’s a pretty janky game but interesting ideas with the one on one mechanic and the set plays. Also shocking it had real player and team names.

 

[Colon]

I don't know why you are getting so offended here honestly. If you want to argue with someone the least you can do it is do it politely ffs.

You haven't once acknowledged the point I made about PES 21 having more shot types such as knuckle shot and dipping shots, and you have the audacity to tell me I'm ignoring your points.

Through out this discussion I have been polite and it has you who's lashing out passive aggressively with snide comments. Please, if you want to discuss something with someone at least have the manners to not insult them while you do so. It's the bare minimum.

First of all: I am not offended at all.
I don't like PES21 because of PES21. Not because of you. I don't know you and I don't care about you at all. So it is very weird of you to say " You're judging those games badly just because I praised them.". Also doing that and then asking me, why I am offended is funny.

The reason I called your comment out is, that you think not liking the game/ dribbling or whatever has to do with the fact, that one doesn't know the mechanics. That was also a very snide comment of you.

I acknowledged every single point you made. I even gave you three video examples talking about what you claimed. Which you just called "cherry picking". So much for discussion manners, right?

Again, I wish you fun with PES21. I will have fun with older PES games. 🤝

I'm not getting involved, but I've had 'dealings' with that guy before. It'll be a case here as everywhere, there will be people you really like, people you like & people that just, as we say in Scotland, do your head in.

I'm going to throw another game into the mix for possible discussion. Virtua Pro Football. I've always enjoyed playing that game. Kinda PES-ish, with a gimmicky set-piece mechanic not too dissimilar to Madden. It also had a licensed Dutch second tier, if I remember correctly.
View attachment 392039

Just to be sure. You are not talking about me, right? Because I can't remember having any discussions with you.

 

[FC Bayern]

Now you give me Dutch 3rd division and you’ll get my interest.

That’s a pretty janky game but interesting ideas with the one on one mechanic and the set plays. Also shocking it had real player and team names.

I went back to it today after mentioning it, all the different 2nd divisions (3rd and 4th in the case of England). Imagine PES5 & 6 giving all the second divisions also? The gameplay doesn't hold up as much as I remember, but it's certainly far from the worst I've played. The AI are difficult though, even on lower levels.

Just to be sure. You are not talking about me, right? Because I can't remember having any discussions with you.

No worries, @Colon, you're safe 😂 I feel anyone who constantly fights their corner and can't accept even the slightest degree of, not being wrong, as it's opinions...but I guess, acceptance of a differing opinion. PES 2021 isn't automatically better because it's newer, in the same vein that PES 5/6 isn't better because of it's popularity and cult status. I actually went back to PES 2021 on PS5 and created kits for some of the UEFA Cup teams 😝 So I see both sides. Both games have positives, both have faults.

Can't even remember what the disagreement was about, that's how much I care for it 😂

 

[subtra3t]

I'm not getting involved, but I've had 'dealings' with that guy before

What a weirdly passive aggressive comment from someone who doesn't want to get involved...

 

[tikijaka]

Having spent this year playing single player, co op and multiplayer PS2 PES and WE on original PS2 hardware, I still can’t decide and keep bounce between these:

WE9LE, including the patch by @morodolarama1. The definitive PES 5, with incredible physics. I joy to behold.

PES 5. My original favourite.

WE 2008 / PES 2008 (thanks @TeeCee for this thread and in particular the @Juventino32 OF here). The lost versions.

WE10 (KM Mix 1.2 by @user name 99 and new CL mix with @jackallan). So much fun and the years of dedication to this patch shines through.

PES 6. Wasn’t a big fan in the past but revisiting now it’s undeniably fantastic fun and the community makes it a timeless classic.

Having been a regular PESfan member two decades ago, it has been fantastic to return to the community and I’m very grateful to this excellent site for giving me the joy of football gaming again. Thank you!

EDIT: Updated links to the various threads.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

Wow PES 2021 with 29%???? I really dont get it, apart from the modding scene and being the latest game with ML.

 

[*aLe]

Wow PES 2021 with 29%???? I really dont get it, apart from the modding scene and being the latest game with ML.

It's also strange to see that FIFA games have been basically ignored (well, being this a PES-centric forum it could be foreseen after all, I guess).
Yes I believe that the modding scene plays a huge part in PES 2021 being up there (it's basically the only one challenging PES 6).

I'd be curious to see what the result would be if every voter got to vote again but were only able to choose a game from the "top 3" of the current standings.

 

[user name 99]

Already said this in another post but PS3-era FIFA can really stake a claim, those were very enjoyable before it all became so boring. From them I'd pick the 2010 World Cup game, absolutely amazing.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

It's also strange to see that FIFA games have been basically ignored (well, being this a PES-centric forum it could be foreseen after all, I guess).
Yes I believe that the modding scene plays a huge part in PES 2021 being up there (it's basically the only one challenging PES 6).

I'd be curious to see what the result would be if every voter got to vote again but were only able to choose a game from the "top 3" of the current standings.

I have played a lot of PES4-5-6 during the holidays. And i must say PES6 isnt really that good but it has the modding scene. Shooting is inconsistent and ai is easy and just dumb compared to PES5 while everything else are the same.

 

[embraceuk1]

Winning eleven 9LE is the right answer

 

[FCDallas_Fan]

2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa and I will die on that hill! The only game to even come close was the 2014 iteration. There are a few other high quality titles, but I always go back to 2010.

 

[JamieH]

only my opinion but I think it's fifa 14 but specifically the xbox one and ps4 version. I wish the pc got that version because that plus fifa 14 classic patch would be heaven for me

 

[subtra3t]

only my opinion but I think it's fifa 14 but specifically the xbox one and ps4 version. I wish the pc got that version because that plus fifa 14 classic patch would be heaven for me

I agree with you, FIFA 14 on nextgen platforms was an amazing game. Even on PC it wasn't as bad as I think a lot of people make it out to be, it felt like EA were taking a step in the right direction.

 

[PES4eva]

Been a while since I visited. PES 6 and PES 21 tied....