FIFA 15 News & Discussion Thread

[BobbyBox]

The gameplay is stiffer, freedom is stifled, ball physics aren't as good - as a result, the game is more realistic

Hmmmmm these are plus points for PES?

Its a strange world we live in, when people are craving these attributes for a football game.

'Stiffer, stifled gameplay with shitter ball physics' Should be on the back of the box

 

[winston]

Thanks, I've spent 20-30 hours testing PES 2015, probably a couple hundred testing FIFA 15. FIFA, as arcade as it typically plays out of the box - and it's actually not bad this year - can always be modded and edited to play a very good sim game. The coding and player ratings are very responsive. Example: via edits and ini codes, I fixed the no-foul issue to such a degree that the CPU was getting 20-25 fouls and 6-8 cards each game. Too many, I actually had to cut back on my edits. Likewise the high passing % problem can easily be fixed via sliders and other player rating edits.

I've been trying to fix some of the issues with PES using similar editing techniques. Absolutely nothing works. CPU players perform at the same level whether they're rated 40 (lowest rating) or 99. What Konami decided to do apparently is create a game that, on the surface, looks like a brilliant football simulation. But the fact is there's nothing under the hood so to speak. Regardless of player passing ratings or difficulty level, the CPU ping pongs the ball back and forth with 85-90% accuracy. It's as if the game is programmed to have the CPU auto-pass the ball around, to give the impression of "real football." It's very much like a game that's been created for the sole purpose of watching and admiring, rather than actually playing. User vs CPU is anyway, User vs User is no doubt a blast to play.

This isn't unexpected as Konami has been dumbing down and removing critical player ratings over the past 4 years. I believe they took these coding shortcuts - removing rather than fixing - because they were in a mad rush to create a game to compete with FIFA. Shooting was one the first aspects that was dumbed down, they removed critical shot ratings the past couple of years. And now shooting in PES, which used to be one of its brilliant aspects, has been simplified to the point where people are complaining that scoring goals feels too easy, that goals don't feel earned anymore.

Agree completely. I hated the pixel perfect ping-pong passing and identically perfect first touches of every cpu player in the PES15 demo but liked the tactical settings (at least they had more effect on how the cpu played than FIFA's custom tactics, which do nothing at all), so curious to see how the lower league teams played in PES15, I bought it.

I immediately wanted to discover how lowering ALL the stats down to 40 (lowest possible value) affected how the cpu players played, so I lowered every stat to 40 (with no skills, etc) for a cpu player in one team copied that player 10 times across the whole team. Passing stood out as being the same as before, still largely pixel perfect and whilst the first touch on occasion is slightly heavy, it generally only occurs in situations where the cpu player is in acres of spaces so won't lose the ball anyway. Altering FIFA's sliders has a far greater impact of cpu first touch (and passing). And you're spot on about shooting, no miss-hit shots (or passes or clearances), it's a game that has been stripped of "errors" and physical tussles to make it a ping-pong end-to-end arcade game.

I initially actually quite liked playing PES15 with both my team and the cpu team having all players with stats of 40, but it was mainly because I liked to set up the cpu tactics to play various tactics, from long-ball down the middle to a winger based approach, to barca style short-passing/possession game. The cpu does at least attempt to play in different ways according to the tactics you set up for it but ultimately, I'm now seeing it score the same goal over and over. Paradoxically, FIFA has far more variety of goals despite every team play in broadly the same way, tactically.

PES still has the same underlying philosophy in creating a "challenging" AI and that is to cheat, speed/reaction cheats all over the place, manipulation of situations, heavily "scripted", as it always has been. It's still the same gameplay engine, even if it's a new gfx engine.

The complete lack of free-kicks for the human, despite numerous blatant fouls by the cpu is completely unacceptable. It's so bad I can only assume they did it on purpose and simply don't care. FIFA15 plays a far fairer game in this regard.

 

[romagnoli]

Its a strange world we live in, when people are craving these attributes for a football game.

Damn right - we want balls where every panel has its own physics engine and emotions, with laces that untie themselves in the breeze. Bones that actually break and poke out the bloody sock. An ashen-faced, croaky, stubbly Martin Tyler actually Skyping in and commentating. Players who move so freely and loosely that by halftime the pitch is slick with diarrhea.

Who cares if none of it goes together - look at the back of the box!

 

[klashman69]

Thanks, I've spent 20-30 hours testing PES 2015, probably a couple hundred testing FIFA 15. FIFA, as arcade as it typically plays out of the box - and it's actually not bad this year - can always be modded and edited to play a very good sim game. The coding and player ratings are very responsive. Example: via edits and ini codes, I fixed the no-foul issue to such a degree that the CPU was getting 20-25 fouls and 6-8 cards each game. Too many, I actually had to cut back on my edits. Likewise the high passing % problem can easily be fixed via sliders and other player rating edits.

I've been trying to fix some of the issues with PES using similar editing techniques. Absolutely nothing works. CPU players perform at the same level whether they're rated 40 (lowest rating) or 99. What Konami decided to do apparently is create a game that, on the surface, looks like a brilliant football simulation. But the fact is there's nothing under the hood so to speak. Regardless of player passing ratings or difficulty level, the CPU ping pongs the ball back and forth with 85-90% accuracy. It's as if the game is programmed to have the CPU auto-pass the ball around, to give the impression of "real football." It's very much like a game that's been created for the sole purpose of watching and admiring, rather than actually playing. User vs CPU is anyway, User vs User is no doubt a blast to play.

This isn't unexpected as Konami has been dumbing down and removing critical player ratings over the past 4 years. I believe they took these coding shortcuts - removing rather than fixing - because they were in a mad rush to create a game to compete with FIFA. Shooting was one the first aspects that was dumbed down, they removed critical shot ratings the past couple of years. And now shooting in PES, which used to be one of its brilliant aspects, has been simplified to the point where people are complaining that scoring goals feels too easy, that goals don't feel earned anymore.

Agree completely. I hated the pixel perfect ping-pong passing and identically perfect first touches of every cpu player in the PES15 demo but liked the tactical settings (at least they had more effect on how the cpu played than FIFA's custom tactics, which do nothing at all), so curious to see how the lower league teams played in PES15, I bought it.

I immediately wanted to discover how lowering ALL the stats down to 40 (lowest possible value) affected how the cpu players played, so I lowered every stat to 40 (with no skills, etc) for a cpu player in one team copied that player 10 times across the whole team. Passing stood out as being the same as before, still largely pixel perfect and whilst the first touch on occasion is slightly heavy, it generally only occurs in situations where the cpu player is in acres of spaces so won't lose the ball anyway. Altering FIFA's sliders has a far greater impact of cpu first touch (and passing). And you're spot on about shooting, no miss-hit shots (or passes or clearances), it's a game that has been stripped of "errors" and physical tussles to make it a ping-pong end-to-end arcade game.

I initially actually quite liked playing PES15 with both my team and the cpu team having all players with stats of 40, but it was mainly because I liked to set up the cpu tactics to play various tactics, from long-ball down the middle to a winger based approach, to barca style short-passing/possession game. The cpu does at least attempt to play in different ways according to the tactics you set up for it but ultimately, I'm now seeing it score the same goal over and over. Paradoxically, FIFA has far more variety of goals despite every team play in broadly the same way, tactically.

PES still has the same underlying philosophy in creating a "challenging" AI and that is to cheat, speed/reaction cheats all over the place, manipulation of situations, heavily "scripted", as it always has been. It's still the same gameplay engine, even if it's a new gfx engine.

The complete lack of free-kicks for the human, despite numerous blatant fouls by the cpu is completely unacceptable. It's so bad I can only assume they did it on purpose and simply don't care. FIFA15 plays a far fairer game in this regard.

I see where you guys are coming from. it's something i saw at the beginning in PES 2015, i changed the V-sync settings and other nvidea settings so i'm seeing it less now but it's there. the CPU regardless of the team have this high passing accuracy and seem to be able to hit perfect passes backwards to get them out of trouble.

It still happens now after I've sorted the input lag issue out but far less and when you play against shit teams, you can easily pressure them into mistakes unlike with better teams. I did that vs standard liege and won 3-0 on superstar. So it shouldn't happen if you sit back and let them pass.

I can see that the simplifying of PES and dubbing down has come in conjunction with the new animations and physics. Konami haven't got a proper hold of them yet, i can see how many of the old settings just don't work with the new physics etc... this impresses me at how well 2015 holds up despite how poor the ratings are and how many of them have been removed since 2013 at least, shot technique was removed in 2012 and instead first time shots where dependent on technique/ball control.

We will wait and see how the game evolves for better or worse with offical patches this year.

 

[BobbyBox]

I sense some sarcasm from Romagnoli

The freedom of the ball in the new Fifa is great and a standout feature for me.

I need to play the new PES but one of the biggest negative things for me in previous ones were the stiffness and the feeling that Inwasnt in control in certain aspects.

Fifa I feel much more control and if you play like minded people i really dont have many issues with the game.

As I said earlier playing my friend we rarely have high scoring games and draw or beat eachother by 1 goal most of the time. He is gifted at attacking play and is good at dribbling but I am better and defending and it provides a good balance.

Anyway arguing about it is pointless, If people are enjoyin the respective games then so be it!

 

[Gab_]

No! There can only be one winner!

 

[klashman69]

No! There can only be one winner!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqcLjcSloXs

 

[mfmaxpower]

Fifa I feel much more control and if you play like minded people i really dont have many issues with the game.

I've had some great matches with FIFA - with both manual and default settings - when playing against like minded people. The problem is that the online environment is a cesspool, and those good experiences are way too few and far between, and this doesn't matter if it's default settings or manual, FUT or Seasons.

And it's been the same thing with PES: I'm at the point I've gotten fed up with PES online because it's mostly people playing high pressure and spamming through passes. Like FIFA, it's very basic, repetitive, uninteresting football. People complain that playing against the AI is repetitive, but I've found playing online to be even more repetitive. Except the CPU doesn't play like a dick, doesn't just pick Real Madrid, or try to exploit the flaws in the game

This is why I've always in the past stayed in the comfort of single player. The problem this year is that FIFA has regressed in the single player experience, with the AI in so many situations just so... dumb. Which is why I keep going back to PES this year, because despite all its flaws, it plays the most realistic, well-balanced, satisfying brand of football, even if it doesn't quite feel new/current gen.

I need to play the new PES but one of the biggest negative things for me in previous ones were the stiffness and the feeling that Inwasnt in control in certain aspects.

This is definitely still an issue. In fact, quite a few of PES's legacy issues, like also player awareness, are still problems. For me, it took about 3-5 days before I finally fell into sync with the gameplay and started finding the positives to outweigh the negatives. There are issues with PES that still frustrate and disappoint, and in many areas it's a harsh contrast compared with FIFA, but I definitely recommend giving it a solid week before making a decision on it.

 

[Chris Davies]

Just tried for 25 minutes to get a manual game on Seasons and there's nobody out there...

Is there another mode I'm more likely to find a manual player in?

 

[PU6HY]

5 minutes is about the most I've ever had to wait

 

[Chris Davies]

What console is that on?

I'm on Xbox One, tried again last night and even this morning before work. Waited for 40 minutes in total so far, I'm guessing either there's less manual players on the Xbox One or I'm looking in the wrong mode?

 

[Dodecahedron]

Try with a few different star ratings of teams - I find on PC that there seems to be more manual players using teams around 4 stars. I tend to play as Swansea or Southampton and don't have too much trouble finding manual games.

Could be a port forwarding issue perhaps?

 

[Chris Davies]

Try with a few different star ratings of teams - I find on PC that there seems to be more manual players using teams around 4 stars. I tend to play as Swansea or Southampton and don't have too much trouble finding manual games.

Could be a port forwarding issue perhaps?

I've got an open NAT (first thing I check, spent a silly amount on a German router that means I can have open NAT on two Xbox Ones, impossible with three off-the-shelf UK routers I tried)...!

Could be the star rating though, I was trying with Liverpool (who are 4.5 I think) - I'll try again tonight with lower star ratings.

 

[PU6HY]

What console is that on?

I'm on Xbox One, tried again last night and even this morning before work. Waited for 40 minutes in total so far, I'm guessing either there's less manual players on the Xbox One or I'm looking in the wrong mode?

Xbox One. Quite often go Liverpool so don't have any issues finding games with them. I've found its harder getting a game the lower stars you go on Manual but it doesn't bother me playing the top sides on Manual as it's still a slower game and you can't pingpong so I'm happy with that.
If you ever fancy a game, give me a shout. I'm decent at best and just try and play in a decent manner.

 

[angus]

when you play against shit teams, you can easily pressure them into mistakes unlike with better teams. I did that vs standard liege and won 3-0 on superstar. So it shouldn't happen if you sit back and let them pass.

That's good info, thanks.

 

[angus]

I immediately wanted to discover how lowering ALL the stats down to 40 (lowest possible value) affected how the cpu players played, so I lowered every stat to 40 (with no skills, etc) for a cpu player in one team copied that player 10 times across the whole team. Passing stood out as being the same as before, still largely pixel perfect and whilst the first touch on occasion is slightly heavy, it generally only occurs in situations where the cpu player is in acres of spaces so won't lose the ball anyway.

Yes, lowering ratings to 40 does affect first touch slightly and shot power as well, but not much else. I've been editing/modding sports games since the late 1980's, and PES 2015 is one of the worst games I've come across in terms of lack of rating effectiveness.

A baseball game came out in the 90s, Hardball 6. The Hardball series at the time was considered a pure sim game, the sort of reputation of PES has had for the last decade. So I started my usually testing with Hardball, and found things like pitch speeds having only 2 settings: any player with a 90+ fastball rating threw 97-99 mph, and any player with a fastball rating 89 and lower threw a 91-93 mph fastball. That was it, 2 settings as I said even though all players were assigned fastball ratings anywhere from 80 to 99. PES 2015 player rating effectiveness is (EDIT: IMO seemingly) THAT bad and that useless.

 

[hitmanuk]

so essentially you are saying FIFA stats are more effective than PES? I am ejoying PES other than the fouls but im still wondering how scripted it is. Is is really scripted or is the AI really good

 

[angus]

That's for PC I guess?Is there some tool for global editing? If I managed or used attributes edit, will it affect youth players (new ones)? If you know any ini edits or where I could look to choose from those codes?

I've been editing FIFA for 3 years, I mothballed my console in 2011 and bought a gaming PC specifically so I could mod FIFA and PES, the only two sports games I play anymore. There's a lot to editing of course, too much to discuss here. Soccergaming has all the editing tools and tutorials you need, as well as mods you can just download and install in your game. I can tell you though, modded FIFA 15 plays an incredible sim football game, it's without question the best video football experience I've had.

And now that I have the gameplay down and the foul issue resolved, my next project is to create some differentiation in team styles, FIFA's one big weakness. The thing I'm currently doing is editing team formation positioning in the formations table as the in-game team tactics options aren't all that effective. For example, moving up the back line and assigning Join Attack instructions to players forces CPU teams play an extreme attack style. The default game has the defender line always staying back at midfield. But after these edits the CPU always brings in their back line defenders well into the attacking zone. So then when playing against a CPU team that's using that style of formation, you know that switching to a counter-attack formation and tactics can be very effect against them. Just one example and how it can help create some real and actual formation/tactic strategy.

 

[angus]

so essentially you are saying FIFA stats are more effective than PES? I am ejoying PES other than the fouls but im still wondering how scripted it is. Is is really scripted or is the AI really good

The scripting question for me is simple: neither game contains scripting that guarantees the CPU will score or win. But both games contain scripting that gives ratings boosts to CPU players at particular times in the game and/or handicaps your team ratings-wise and negatively impacts their abilities.

I enjoy PES, there's lots to like. But no question player rating effectiveness applies to User players much more than it does to CPU players. Set your team to 40 speed/agility and play a game, then set them to 99 speed/agility and play, you'll see/feel a huge difference. The CPU though, not so much, on Pro and up they're fast no matter what their speed ratings.

 

[hitmanuk]

The scripting question for me is simple: neither game contains scripting that guarantees the CPU will score or win. But both games contain scripting that gives ratings boosts to CPU players at particular times in the game and/or handicaps your team ratings-wise and negatively impacts their abilities.

I enjoy PES, there's lots to like. But no question player rating effectiveness applies to User players much more than it does to CPU players. Set your team to 40 speed/agility and play a game, then set them to 99 speed/agility and play, you'll see/feel a huge difference. The CPU though, not so much, on Pro and up they're fast no matter what their speed ratings.

thanks, pes seems scripted to me for AI goals as the majority feel the same..pass in the box turn far post bottom corner and sometimes i get that feeling there is absolutely nothings i can do about it..the only thing about fifa that made me switch (maybe for the short term) is the very poor ai defense at times where you can pick a ball up and just run past several players..again is this not a scripting issue

 

[angus]

thanks, pes seems scripted to me for AI goals as the majority feel the same..pass in the box turn far post bottom corner and sometimes i get that feeling there is absolutely nothings i can do about it.

Yes, that seems to be this year's fatal flaw. The CPU continually shoots low to the corners, while the User GK is too slow in his initial dive animation and can't reach the shot. The GK stands still too long before diving, you can see it in replays. I think this is a coding issue, not a cheat or scripting. The CPU takes very few long shots which seems like another coding issue. I have been testing this by giving players the 2 long shot traits, but I haven't seen much difference. Next I plan to max out GK ratings to see if this problem still exists with GKs rated 99. But if it exists already with 85-rated GKs, I don't see much hope.

the only thing about fifa that made me switch (maybe for the short term) is the very poor ai defense at times where you can pick a ball up and just run past several players

I have heard people complain about that. I guess I'm not good enough because I have plenty of trouble penetrating the CPU defense, lol. One thing I do is I solidify the shoddy defense AI by getting more players back. This doesn't make players play better, it just gets more bodies back defending to help block shooting and passing lanes, which is a pretty effective fix. Line sliders can help with this. When I play defensive mode, I set line height at 0 and line length at 20, and I use park the bus tactics (d-pad). This brings all 10 players back into my box to help defend. For CPU teams that play ultra-defensive, I set their line sliders at height 20 and length 20.

Actually, I should mention I play on legendary modded down to a pro-world class hybrid difficulty. I always play on legendary because the CPU defensive AI in particular is useless otherwise. But I'm more a pro level player, so I mod the game difficulty down to my level so that I can still play on legendary for the better defensive AI and such.

 

[klashman69]

First angus can i say i think its really cool that you been modding games for that long and you change so many settings to achieve the best gameplay. I think we need more people like you and fidel over at SG, i used to mod fifa pc years ago, even in the shitty years you could come up with some nice stuff.

The issue i have with your findings angus is I feel you need to remove all the mods you have put into FIFA and PES, just play the game out of the box,try master it, then go back to your mods and then you will have a better awareness of whats wrong and whats right.

How good you are at each game makes a big difference in how to mod it.

For example PES has been out for no more than about a week and you have already said it has this issue and that issue, winston was moaning as usual about cheating CPU passing the ball around, which your able to stop just by closing them down and forcing them into mistakes, it's no 'great' they pass accuracy, but i realized it's not really an issue.

They do it because of their tactic setting is on possession game and the tactics is about keeping possession, the passing is rather fake at times, and the game is rather more basic compared to previous years, whats good is the basic nature of pes this year is tidy, it's simple,everything seems to sew into eachover, PES 2011-13 where deeper games than 2015, thing is there where lots of settings which needed to be correct or the game could go haywire.

I think it's imperative to play the original game for usually a month, 2/3 weeks, to a month, it don't have to be very day for hours, play a season mode/master league, master the default settings, then once you bring your notes of whats easy, whats hard, you will get a far better awareness to see what to mod. This is what concerns me about your findings, its like your spending all your time, one test, then mod, one test then mod. rather than just forget everything and all the work you have done before, embrace the game, master it then mod.

If these mods are just for your own personal play, fair enough, i don't think what I've said is my of an issue, but like fidel if your going to release this, it's important to be aware of the different levels of ability of people who will use it.

 

[angus]

If these mods are just for your own personal play, fair enough, i don't think what I've said is my of an issue

I never release mods, if someone PMs me and wants to try out my squad file or whatever, I might agree. But what I think is sim football is usually not what the other person thinks, so I just share what I do and leave it to others to mod their game as they see fit. I don't know what that has to do with anything or why it would be an issue or concern one way or the other, but there's your answer regardless.

I guess what I'm hearing with this and your crack about winston is you're worried this is turning into an anti-PES discussion. All I do is share what I've discovered and am working on. And I acknowledged your comment about the passing and how to achieve more realistic CPU pass % in PES, so I'm not someone who is stuck on any fixed belief about how these games play or are coded. I just point out what I've come across, and if others like yourself have found fixes and workarounds, great, I welcome feedback and suggestions.

 

[klashman69]

Fair enough, its all good.

 

[Chris Davies]

Fair enough, its all good.

 

[pesorfifa]

going from pes to fifa makes fifa ridicolous.

It seemed the game was 100x faster than pes and a total joke...was like superspeed arcade OTT fake game.

Yet i thought it was fine before i got pes..but after one night on pes and back on fifa i just could not get to grips with the speed it was like a joke of a game..

 

[superleeds1]

going from pes to fifa makes fifa ridicolous.

It seemed the game was 100x faster than pes and a total joke...was like superspeed arcade OTT fake game.

Yet i thought it was fine before i got pes..but after one night on pes and back on fifa i just could not get to grips with the speed it was like a joke of a game..

A lot of better players play FIFA on slow.( which is not actually slow at all ).Every rig is different,graphics cards vary tremendously and some people have the games running very well tuned.
Probably a bit premature to describe either game as a joke,especially after one night of gameplay.

 

[dannyfc2]

Said this a few times but if you want a decent game of football you just have to avoid FUT.

Exclusively play Seasons or against organised competition, and I average less then a goal a game.

The defending system is a dream and finally puts the responsibility in the player's hands. The only aspect that lets it's down is the AI positioning, which can leave you exposed if you don't constantly marshall the backline.

They just need to tone down the accuracey of passing to slow down back to front transitions. This would be aided if your DMs provided cover rather then bomb forward at every opportunity.

Also lowering the control of dribbling at full space, or introduce a touch variance to penalise poorer technical players.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

I've been lucky perhaps but 8/10 games I've played have been enjoyable online. I don't play FUT and the highest ranked team I play with is Juventus (being the team I follow). But my EPL side is Everton and I'll play with them too. But I like playing as random teams just to discover different players and to add variety to the experience. Played a cup game as Hellas Verona vs Shaktar and lost 3-2 with my striker hitting the post in the last minute of extra time. Cracking game. Will post a link to the highlights in the video thread.

I really think you'll get the best out of either football game if you try and play like you were playing football. Regardless of control settings, game speed etc it will bring about some great moments and exciting gameplay. Just because you can hold down sprint and score goals from certain plays...doesn't mean you have to play that way.

Maybe because I haven't come up against players who are using superteams or trying to just get cheap wins, but I've had some really enjoyable games online and to a lesser extent, but still good against the CPU.

 

[evzag16]

Echoing what others are saying about playing with a "real" approach. I play almost exclusively in career mode and really enjoying the game. Using a recent version of Matt10's sliders, which have helped, and noticed that if I get sucked into a sprinting back and forth, pressuring all over the pitch type of game, the fun is gone almost immediately. It's far from perfect, but think this has been the most fun I've had with FIFA in a long time.