• We've just been notified that Microsoft have applied a fix for our server allowing email delivery again to their email services. It may take 24-48 hours to propagate across their systems. Thanks for bearing with us!

GOALS - oh good, another eSports soccer game

I have to reconsider my Opinion about this Game.

It's about two months since i played it the last time and since then it got some Major Updates. And if you start playing now you will get a so called "Starter Pack" that contains 15 Players. Two of them are rated 90+ and the others are all 80+ rated. With these Players you can build a solid Team and it plays so much better now than two months ago.

Here's some Gameplay against Bots. Sure it is not so polished like Fifa/Efootball or even UFL. But for an Alpha Build it made a huge Step in the right direction.

 
This Beta is the worst the game has ever been, the defense is none existent, bumping into players is so op if you get the rights stats .... its a mess. A shame, because the previous tests were quite decent, still a very arcadey game, but we werent scoring 15+ goals per match....

UFL is miles better atm.
 
Nik said:
This Beta is the worst the game has ever been, the defense is none existent, bumping into players is so op if you get the rights stats .... its a mess. A shame, because the previous tests were quite decent, still a very arcadey game, but we werent scoring 15+ goals per match....

UFL is miles better atm.
Click to expand...
Which is why I'm so shocked at the positive feedback I'm seeing on Twitter... People are so desperate for their input to be the only thing that matters, that the game doesn't have to represent football in any way.

Which makes me so worried about the future of football games - if the biggest paying audience (as in, the microtransaction-guaranteed crowd) only care about winning, i.e. "competitive gameplay" - like a CS:GO game but dressed in football kits...

Every developer will prioritise them, and games of depth and strategy will simply cease to exist (which they already have, though FC's "Authentic Mode" is our last hope).
 
Chris Davies said:
Which is why I'm so shocked at the positive feedback I'm seeing on Twitter... People are so desperate for their input to be the only thing that matters, that the game doesn't have to represent football in any way.

Which makes me so worried about the future of football games - if the biggest paying audience (as in, the microtransaction-guaranteed crowd) only care about winning, i.e. "competitive gameplay" - like a CS:GO game but dressed in football kits...

Every developer will prioritise them, and games of depth and strategy will simply cease to exist (which they already have, though FC's "Authentic Mode" is our last hope).
Click to expand...
Fifa is horrid, eShitball is well...shit, GOALS has a long wayt to go still and I have my doubts now...

We are left with UFL, which improved a lot, but it is still a fifa clone... I dont know...... Its wild that eFootball was kinda good pre 2.0, was the best pred 1.0.... well fuck me.
 
I’ll make an introduction before talking about GOALS. I understand many of you who are asking for realistic football games for an offline experience, but there’s no way such a football game will be released anymore—at least not the way you imagine it. For example, I imagine something like Baz’s upcoming game, Ballsy! League. It will probably have good AI against the CPU and a sense of weight and inertia, but that’s where realism will stop, as the player models, the pitch, and the graphics in general will be very simple and not realistic.

However, you need to think about which football games you liked in the past and why, and which ones are still considered successful and classic today—and why. In my opinion, after all these years of playing almost exclusively football games, from SWOS to modern eFootball & EA FC, the games that received the greatest acceptance were the classic old PES titles, from the PS1 era up to PES 6. Then came FIFA World Cup 2010 (on consoles), FIFA 11, and PES 2013. Even earlier, SWOS and Kick Off 2. I’m referring to games that have left their mark over time. There were also some modern PES titles like PES 2021, but personally I don’t consider it anything special, which is why I didn’t include it. Also, UFL has some interesting elements, but I don’t like its unresponsive gameplay. In its attempt to look realistic, it loses the essence of gameplay, which is responsiveness and giving the player the ability to do what they have in mind, rather than sacrificing that freedom for the sake of completing an animation..

From all the games I mentioned, there is one common element: player responsiveness and input. All of them had excellent and immediate player control, without sluggish animations. Of course, they also had other important elements such as AI, but I believe input was the key factor.

Now, coming to GOALS, which I’ve played and consider a respectable effort for a beta. It has a sense of gravity while still offering responsive control. I don’t know if this sounds controversial, but it somewhat reminds me of PES 2013 in terms of input. The shooting is decent, although it lacks a wide variety of trajectories, but it gets the job done. Of course, it still needs improvement, as do the passes, which often go to a different player than the one you’re aiming for.

But let’s be clear: this is a game that is exclusively focused on 1vs1 (always online) and is trying to become the new FUT. Twenty-five years ago, online didn’t exist, and what mattered was local 1vs1 on the couch. Now that has been replaced by online play. Offline is no longer part of companies’ plans, and people either accept that or stop playing new games.

Overall, GOALS is an okay beta version that doesn’t try to be a football simulation but rather an arcade experience—and I give them credit for that. I hope they make enough improvements before the World Cup, which they say is when they want to release it.
 
It's subjective, to me PES21 is by far the best football game ever made. It's the only one I keep installed on my PC and regularly play to this day.
I hate multiplayer and live service games, I celebrate every time one of those bites the dust.
I deal with other people at work but at least they pay me, when I play games I want to be on my own, old school way.
And I really have a problem with football games that look like Fortnite.
Stay off my lawn, kids.
 
I understand what you’re saying. It’s a matter of preference and perspective. Ever since I was a kid, playing football video games, I always played 1vs1 with friends. Always. Offline leagues or tournaments, and later with PES Master League, I played just to fill the gap when I was home alone. For me, there’s no comparison between playing against real people and playing against the CPU.

I understand that, especially online, you can often face opponents who will do anything to win, but even so, playing against real people is far more interesting. Different ways of thinking and different kinds of matches—something you just don’t see with the CPU.

Since couch gaming isn’t really an option anymore (at least for me), the ideal would be a well-organized tournament, which is quite rare nowadays. So online gaming it is, whether that’s FUT, Master League Online, Knockouts, etc.

As for PES 2021, okay, it’s again a matter of preference, but PES never really found its way after PES 2013 (I’d actually say after PES 6, but fair enough, PES 2013 had its moments). It got lost in animations and in waiting for one animation to finish before you could make your next move. Cinematically, it’s good, but gameplay-wise, it feels quite mediocre to me. No matter how many patches I used in the past, they never really fixed the issue.
 
Jay-Jay 10 said:
Played Goals. Average Scoreline of 8-7. Not a football game.
Click to expand...
Another football-themed game rather than a football game, sadly for us.

@broxopios you mention SWOS, and I totally get where you're coming from, truly - I agree that if they nail their colours to the mast from day one and make it clear they don't care about representing the sport, then nobody is being conned into thinking they're getting a game about football, and everybody knows what the game is about. (I mean, the countdown timer that starts when you have possession of the ball for too long is proof of that.)

Credit to them for trying to make the most fun game possible for that subset of FIFA/FC gamers who truly just want a 1v1, "a game should be a game" players and have little interest in the strategy of real football. And good luck to them, because part of me hopes that if these players truly left FC to play these "more fun" games (which I don't think will happen), FC might care more about making a grounded football game as a result.
 
Let me ask something: what do you consider realism in football games, and how can a football game represent the sport? Is it realistic scores? The AI? Player models and graphics? And which game has achieved what you consider realism?

As for the strategy of real football, I already have that. I regularly play Football Manager, which is the epitome of football strategy. As for my background in football games, I started as a kid in arcades with games like Tehkan Cup, Euro League, Super Sidekicks, then a bit of SWOS, and ultimately mostly PES.

I used to be where many of you are now, waiting for a realistic game, with an excellent collision system, AI from another planet, and many other things that have been discussed here on the forum. I still remember the visual shock I felt when I first saw videos of PES 2014. It was a great game to watch, but not to play. In recent years, I’ve reconsidered what I want from a football game. I’m not saying that GOALS gives me 100% of what I’m looking for. But it does have the responsiveness that I had been missing. The minimal animations may look strange visually, but in terms of input, most of the time what I want actually happens on the pitch.

Because for me now, a football game means that what I’m thinking is translated onto the field, not that animations dictate the outcome just because they look realistic. I also want a game without DDA, which seems not to be present here. I’m tired of goals at the 45th and 90th minute, or matches turning into derbies just because the game decides to create suspense.

I have many more things to say, but I think scattered thoughts might be more tiring than helpful for a meaningful discussion.

And one more thing. How many of you have played Ballsy! World Cup, and how many are looking forward to Ballsy! League? Because the realism you’re looking for in gameplay and AI is more likely to be found in that game than in EA FC or eFootball. I will definitely play Ballsy! League, because besides wanting to support indie efforts, I also have faith in the games that Baz creates.
 
Let me phrase it like that: not playing out animations automatically makes it a not realistic football game.

Football games shouldn't be about responsiveness, they should be outsmarting your opponent by knowing the ideal tactics for the ability of your players. So if you know that your player has a longer shooting animation it means bring him in better positions, if you know a player has a slow turn radius, you have to plan for that.

Passing animations: yes please because it means I have to think how to pass instead of just: quick, quick quick ping pong pinball football. I need to learn the quirks and abilities of my players.

Goals for me is just an awful game. If animations are not played out and it is just fast paced, reaction to reaction I can play Unreal tournament but it is not a football game.

I want to plan my actions and yes that means planning for animations!

Oh goals in 45th and 90th shouldn't happen. I would disagree. Why? Because that's football, teams and players get nervous in situations. That's why stats like composure should exist. I am all for taking some control away from you. If a player has a low composure stat let his passing direction and accuracy be worse when I press that player. That is literally what stats of players are for!

So no please no ping-pong games and more animations and stats matter in games.

Because skill for me is not being able to play ping pong, skill is to learn the strengths and weaknesses of your players and that includes all of the above.

PES 5-6 weren't great because of responsiveness. They were great because I needed to understand the quirks and stats of the players
 
Last edited:
I don’t want to disappoint you, but all these ideals you mention haven’t really been achieved in football games that have been released. They’ve mostly been part of players’ wishlists over the years (at least all them together).

How a pass behaves based on body position isn’t about animations, but about how the developer has programmed the command. There could be no animation at all, and the developer could still define that if a player passes while facing away and has average passing and technique stats, the pass will be inaccurate. The animation just makes what you see look better.

Also, tactics work in GOALS just as much as they do in PES 2021, which is the most recent one I’ve played. A tactic might not work against a specific opponent, you might switch to wing play, adjust things, and eventually win the match. I’ve seen this happen many times, as I’ve played over 40 hours of the beta.

Regarding goals in the 45th and 90th minute, as I said earlier, that’s what we imagine is happening. In reality, though, it’s DDA. The game decides at that moment to break your defense so a pass can go through that wouldn’t have worked before. It’s not about pressure or player stats. You can still score in the 45th and 90th in GOALS, but that’s more due to the player’s (controller’s) stress, not the in-game players. The pressure of leading 3–2 in the 90th minute and trying to hold the result—often you panic, make mistakes, and concede. That’s far more realistic than artificial pressure created by DDA. And DDA is not fiction, is reality.

I don’t want to score or concede goals because the game suddenly decides to “open the path” to create suspense. That’s not football, that means I’m just watching a scripted scenario. That’s why I say I prefer to play the game, not watch it unfold. That’s where we disagree. You interpret conceding in the 45th minute as player pressure, while in reality it’s CPU manipulation.

Since you mentioned stats, who said stats don’t matter in GOALS? You can clearly tell when a player has good speed, passing, or defensive abilities. Sure, it’s not at the level of PES 1–6, but it’s close to modern games, which have also moved away from heavily emphasizing stats. And unfortunately, PES especially PES 2021, has done this even more than FIFA.
 
So the solution is because there is no realistic game let's just have Unreal Tournament the football game.

By the way DDA is fiction.

And no stats don't matter in Goals. Played it. Zero passing or shooting error no matter the stats.

I stand by it: Goals is the worst football game I played in the last 20 years. Great version of an Arcade crazy game like Mario Strikers. But not a football game.

And no it is realistic that AI players crumble under pressure. Literally any point you make just shows why a game with animations and those systems would be better. And no tactics don't work in goals. The AI behaviour is crazy stupid in it.

Also you completely missed my point why animations are part of the tactics and outsmarting and real football. Some players in life have certain shooting techniques for which they need to get in a position. So this is part of the skill: handling the different animations and patterns. In my opinion players who don't want animations just don't want to learn the variety of different players. An Mbappe should have a different shooting animation and input reaction then a player from the English 4th Division. That makes Mbappe better. If all players have the same reaction time to your input and no animation in the box where is the skill? Where is the learning your player and the quirks?

And yes that's why I say AI players should falter under pressure. If they do that means looking for players with better composure stats. It is about learning your team. If your player doesn't track an opponent well because he is nervous you need to find a way to cope with that. And guess what that is skill.

For me the people who just want quick responsiveness are actually the ones that want a skill less game. Because they don't want to learn the intricacies of football and team building.

Because that is what football is about: Managers look at the strength and weaknesses of their team and adapt to it. That's why football is a game of chess and not a game of reaction time. And that's where real football intelligence and skill come in: not that you can press a button faster than the other person but that you know how to use your teams abilities and how to hide their weakness

Like I said if you think Input responsiveness was the most important factor about PES you never understood PES. Master League wasn't great because of responsiveness. It was great because you had a quirky starter team you learned to love and each new player was learning a new way of playing the game.
 
Last edited:
Everything you’re saying sounds poetic, but it will remain just words on paper. You’re not going to see all that implemented in a football game. If you simply enjoy discussing it, that’s fine, but you know the conversation is purely theoretical.

In reality, I agree with what you’re saying, and it’s something I’d also like to see. We’ve discussed this before on this forum, and these are important elements for a football game to have. The problem, as I said, is that we’re never going to see them fully implemented, and don’t tell me you realistically expect all of this to happen at some point.

That doesn’t mean I’m settling or that I play GOALS because I think the kind of football game you’re describing will never be released. I play it because I’ve always liked arcade-style football games with direct control, where what I want to happen on the pitch actually almost happens. It fulfills a different need.

Now, let’s get to the points where I disagree. You mention that stats in GOALS don’t matter. I somewhat disagree, but it’s true they’re not as impactful as they should be. Would I like them to have more impact? Definitely. But the same thing happens in the latest PES games. In PES 2021, especially when it comes to passing, all players pass the ball in pretty much the same way. You can’t really distinguish a great passer from a poor one.

We loved the old PES games for their gameplay. Master League was a great mode, but without strong gameplay, no one would care about it. And yes, responsiveness was clearly one of the most beloved features of the game, passes coming off instantly with a button press. Thankfully, they didn’t overload it with complex animations, because it would have lost its magic. But that wasn’t the only thing that made it stand out. It was also the player models, the shooting system, and the tactical positioning on the pitch. Still, I’m not sure why we’re even debating a game we both like.

And to wrap it up: you say "football is a game of chess and not a game of reaction time". I agree with the first part, but say the same about the magical moments we’ve seen from football geniuses like Diego Maradona, Pele, Ronaldinho, Lionel Messi, Zinedine Zidane, and many others. If they hadn’t existed, and hadn’t done those incredible skills, no matter how tactical football is, we might not have fallen in love with the sport the same way.
 
Again I would disagree about that PES was special because of the responsiveness. It was because you could feel the difference of the players and that is not responsiveness that was different stats and behaviours. That was also what was magical about PES 2013. You needed to learn the animations. That was skill

Even your Maradona point proves my chess argument.

Watch Germany against Argentina from 1990.

It is the game where Buchwald got the Nickname Diego because he took Maradona completely out of the game. Why? Because it was a brillant chess move by Beckenbauer finding the counter piece to the attacking piece.

And I didn't fall in love because of Maradona or Baggio. Yes I love skills see my nickname. But I fell in love because the underdog can beat the big team by playing smart and that is what makes football special
 
Really a shot from that position should prove something? Take a 1:1 situation with that shooting stats and then see what happens. Because that is where he should miss the goal but won't. But shooting from that position even with 80 stats the shot should go the same, so this proves nothing.

By the way the game has a complete shit corner glitch already where you can score 100% of the time.

I am honestly amazed that you thought that clip proves stats matter, because it is a bad shooting position that no matter the stats 9 times out of 10 in any serious football game it should be that outcome even with higher stats. It is actually kind of shocking that you say a goal can happen from there if the player had higher stats because in real football that would be such a rare occasion. We really have a different opinion on what good football games are apparently.

Edit: the more I watch it the more the clip amazes me. Why would you even take a shot from there? Who in football does that? It is such a low scoring chance.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom