The Retro-PES Corner

Chris Davies said:
After reading a few posts about this over the last few weeks, I decided to give pes6.es a go - it showed me just how far online gaming has come. The thought is exciting, the reality is I'd forgotten all the "rough edges" of playing online back in the day.

Most users were a very long way from me (mostly Argentina and Brazil), and while the first half would work perfectly, the second half would have good old 90s/00s mega-lag (I'm assuming hosting duties swap at half time?). My players would barely respond to my input, and the play kept fast-forwarding as it caught up to the server, with the ball moving off in different directions before the player had even touched it.

That's not to mention (to echo @Flipper the Priest's misgivings about strangers) coming up against some very "odd" formations. First guy spent the entire pre-match time inputting wild formations, playing with 5 up-front and no midfield until he scored and then switching to every player behind the ball...

It made me remember why I loved the days when FIFA had an "Online Leagues" system, where you could make a league out of people who weren't "cheesers" who just wanted to exploit the game.
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Hi Chris,

I did some of the reverse engineering work on pes6.es, thank you for your review of the server.


I'd recommend that next time you're on, you try 2v2 matches instead of 1v1. In 2v2, the game's protocol makes one person host the entire match (to reduce the chances of disconnections with four players), so if you're the blue flag player you host both halves of the match for every game. That way you won't experience any lag and nobody can cheat you when you are playing online.


It might also be a good idea to cash in on your fame and start a thread in the PES6 section - something like "Hang out with Chris Davies for some Friday Night PES" (or whichever evening suits you). Of course you could do this for 1v1 matches too, I'm sure either way it would be very popular.

Your room will no doubt fill with good, fair Evo-Web players (myself included) and it should make for a great evening. Just post in your thread:
"Online now on pes6.es for the next few hours - come play!" etc

2v2 is fantastic fun. If you haven't tried it, let me sell it to you with two videos of me and my old friend Dan below. You'll notice it's all about teamwork - making runs off the ball and reading each other's play. There's nothing quite like it. One of the best things about PES6 online is that you can type messages during the match and those messages appear above your player's head for the other players to read. If someone misses an easy chance or something ridiculous happens, you'll all be writing and laughing the whole time.

A few moments from my first video, (btw a funny thing that happens is that your team mate will often start behaving like your "PES Wife" and you will need to keep him satisfied):

1:15 - I go flying into a reckless tackle and Dan immediately starts henpecking me about my tackling :)
1:35 - We score a great team goal with quick passing
3:08 - I do it again and get a man sent off, Dan's not impressed and you can tell he's raging (the video was recorded on his PC)
8:20 - More b@tching (excuse the language!) from him as usual :))

Video 1:

There's also a "Team" chat tab where you and your teammate can talk tactics privately when the game is paused, though it often turns into them giving out about your passing or tackling so use it carefully! It's best to pretend you never see that tab :))

If you host the match it's very hard for anyone to cheat anyone else and with a good connection you'll give everyone a good fair smooth game.

Even if it's just you and one friend some nights, you can quickly jump on for a few games, rooms tend to fill up fast once two players are ready.

The key is working together... winning the ball back, keeping possession, spotting runs and creating chances for each other. If one of you is the stronger finisher, you might need to focus on getting him into good positions. Some PES Wives are very selfish and won't pass the ball. Others will be intolerable to spend time with and complain a lot. Others will shoot too early and might not have the stamina to keep up with you and satisfy you. To really enjoy it, try to find a chatty, easygoing teammate who's up for a laugh and proper teamwork. This is the key to enjoying 2v2 finding the right partner someone who just gets you and theres good chemistry with. Someone you can work on your formation together on WhatsApp etc and your football philosophy during the week before you get on the server.

It is best to treat the random players on the server who join your room (if they are not from evoweb) as cannon fodder, kick anyone disruptive and keep the good ones around. There's a lot of people who will waste your time and try to annoy you on purpose on the server, as half the game is psychological.

2v2 games can get surprisingly intense because you aren't just keeping an eye on the ball but also where your wife is and the opposing couple - you'll be a ball of sweat by the end, hands blistered (and your PES Wife will still be telling you to step it up!)

Also check 08:27 in the second video, great goal after we'd been under immense pressure for ages trying to hold onto the lead :))

Being in those kinds of situations, trying desperately to hold on .... or breaking your fingers to get a last second goal to stop yourselves from losing when you are on a ten game winning streak and you pull it off its euphoric , it's the sort of shared experience that creates a friend for life. You will genuinely come to think of your team mate as your PES Wife after a while hehehe. I have gifts delivered to my pes wife in the UK every year at Christmas and we've had a happy 10 year relationship playing pes6 together.

Video 2:
 
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Prankster said:
Hi Chris,

I did some of the reverse engineering work on pes6.es, thank you for your review of the server.


I'd recommend that next time you're on, you try 2v2 matches instead of 1v1. In 2v2, the game's protocol makes one person host the entire match (to reduce the chances of disconnections with four players), so if you're the blue flag player you host both halves of the match for every game. That way you won't experience any lag and nobody can cheat you when you are playing online.


It might also be a good idea to cash in on your fame and start a thread in the PES6 section - something like "Hang out with Chris Davies for some Friday Night PES" (or whichever evening suits you). Of course you could do this for 1v1 matches too, I'm sure either way it would be very popular.

Your room will no doubt fill with good, fair Evo-Web players (myself included) and it should make for a great evening. Just post in your thread:
"Online now on pes6.es for the next few hours - come play!" etc

2v2 is fantastic fun. If you haven't tried it, let me sell it to you with two videos of me and my old friend Dan below. You'll notice it's all about teamwork - making runs off the ball and reading each other's play. There's nothing quite like it. One of the best things about PES6 online is that you can type messages during the match and those messages appear above your player's head for the other players to read. If someone misses an easy chance or something ridiculous happens, you'll all be writing and laughing the whole time.

A few moments from my first video, (btw a funny thing that happens is that your team mate will often start behaving like your "PES Wife" and you will need to keep him satisfied):

1:15 - I go flying into a reckless tackle and Dan immediately starts henpecking me about my tackling :)
1:35 - We score a great team goal with quick passing
3:08 - I do it again and get a man sent off, Dan's not impressed and you can tell he's raging (the video was recorded on his PC)
8:20 - More b@tching (excuse the language!) from him as usual :))

Video 1:

There's also a "Team" chat tab where you and your teammate can talk tactics privately when the game is paused, though it often turns into them giving out about your passing or tackling so use it carefully! It's best to pretend you never see that tab :))

If you host the match it's very hard for anyone to cheat anyone else and with a good connection you'll give everyone a good fair smooth game.

Even if it's just you and one friend some nights, you can quickly jump on for a few games, rooms tend to fill up fast once two players are ready.

The key is working together... winning the ball back, keeping possession, spotting runs and creating chances for each other. If one of you is the stronger finisher, you might need to focus on getting him into good positions. Some PES Wives are very selfish and won't pass the ball. Others will be intolerable to spend time with and complain a lot. Others will shoot too early and might not have the stamina to keep up with you and satisfy you. To really enjoy it, try to find a chatty, easygoing teammate who's up for a laugh and proper teamwork. This is the key to enjoying 2v2 finding the right partner someone who just gets you and theres good chemistry with. Someone you can work on your formation together on WhatsApp etc and your football philosophy during the week before you get on the server.

It is best to treat the random players on the server who join your room (if they are not from evoweb) as cannon fodder, kick anyone disruptive and keep the good ones around. There's a lot of people who will waste your time and try to annoy you on purpose on the server, as half the game is psychological.

2v2 games can get surprisingly intense because you aren't just keeping an eye on the ball but also where your wife is and the opposing couple - you'll be a ball of sweat by the end, hands blistered (and your PES Wife will still be telling you to step it up!)

Also check 08:27 in the second video, great goal after we'd been under immense pressure for ages trying to hold onto the lead :))

Being in those kinds of situations, trying desperately to hold on .... or breaking your fingers to get a last second goal to stop yourselves from losing when you are on a ten game winning streak and you pull it off its euphoric , it's the sort of shared experience that creates a friend for life. You will genuinely come to think of your team mate as your PES Wife after a while hehehe. I have gifts delivered to my pes wife in the UK every year at Christmas and we've had a happy 10 year relationship playing pes6 together.

Video 2:
Click to expand...

I'm having a lot of trouble connecting from Turkey. Even when I do connect, the game freezes. I'm trying it with a PS2.
 
NeoRetro said:
No, no it's already put in case without the separation like "," parameters.
You can open with whatever Calc you want, Open or Libre Office, Microsoft Excel.
An advertissement when you open a file like that is always the case when that one was created with for example Calc and you want to open it with Excel.
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is there a way to create ods file like the ones u have uploaded.
I have both PES 2009 PC/PS3 and PES 2010 PC/PS3 option files, the editor can export it on csv format.
but unfortunately, the layout isn't perfect
 
rockstrongo said:
Played a bit of Pes 2008 on my 360 today, and not a bad game tbh, had it for years, bought for like € 0.50
Liked it
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I honestly think its not that bad of a game, its pretty much an updated graphically PES with PS2 gameplay which was great at that time.

Sadly i cant run it smoothly on my PC.
 
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{UPDATE} , did anyone find the fix for the j league dlc of we2012 or an all dlc fix ? , I think I'm the only one in the universe who's searching for this dlc 😅 or if anyone has another link for the dlc or datapacks of we2012 on ps3 ?
 
robertob said:
I guess you're referring to the PS2 version of PES 2011, given you mention "great mix between PES 4 and PES 5"... if so, YES - I totally agree, after having caught up now on all the PES titles post PES 6 myself, finally (thanks in large part to this forum).

PES 2011 truly stands out: it has the right pace and flow, the right directness of control, the right the dynamic of play that feels simply spot on, and you have to play proper football - this is a tactical game I feel like PES 5 is, but open enough to play spectacular attacking football, though you get punished for sprinting around the pitch like a lunatic, with the AI showing a brutal ruthlessness as well.

I'd go as far an say this is the best PES title on the PS2... if not for some flaws that derail enjoyment: most notably the random shooting. It's absolutely atrocious in this game.

It's a shame Konami didn't build on this title. Because PES 2012 plays completely different. The flow and pace are off, the ball feels like filled with led.... the whole dynamic that makes PES 2011 so exciting is gone. But the shooting is a lot better. PES 2013 feels better again, PES 2014 is decent. But PES 2011 feels the absolute pinnacle of PS 2 PES.
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The PS2 versions of PES/WE from 2011 to 2014 are the titles where the defensive AI of the PS2-era WE/PES underwent a revolution. Apart from the early WE5 to WE7i, from WE8 to JLWE2010 the defensive AI was absolute garbage! The defensive line had no sense of depth whatsoever — most of the time, the deepest defenders had zero concept of the offside line. The tackling judgment of defenders was finally made reasonable as well. Before that, there was basically no concept of tackling.

Moreover, starting from 2011, the attacking AI (in certain aspects) also saw significant improvement. Previously, once your team gained possession, the attacking line would just charge forward mindlessly, completely ignoring offside.

From 2011 onward, the PS2 WE/PES games could barely be considered passable, realistic football games. Of course, there are also drawbacks starting from 2011: when dribbling, every player's close control makes them look like Messi, and the player animations were greatly simplified. And the ball physics were also toned downgraded.
 
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rockstrongo said:
Played a bit of Pes 2008 on my 360 today, and not a bad game tbh, had it for years, bought for like € 0.50
Liked it
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Each to their own of course but I don't like it on PC and PS3 etc and the thing iss that I think the PS2 version is one of the best PES games ever made and then I played the PS3 version and yuk! 😄 Not for me but glad you get some enjoyment out of it.
 
PES4eva said:
Each to their own of course but I don't like it on PC and PS3 etc and the thing iss that I think the PS2 version is one of the best PES games ever made and then I played the PS3 version and yuk! 😄 Not for me but glad you get some enjoyment out of it.
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Isn't most PS2 versions better than PS3, like 6 and 9 for instance.
Haven't played pes in a long time and it felt quite alright
 
rockstrongo said:
Isn't most PS2 versions better than PS3, like 6 and 9 for instance.
Haven't played pes in a long time and it felt quite alright
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Well I think so but I've always preferred the classic style gameplay over the gameplay of the next generation of systems. I also prefer the PS1 gameplay over PS3 and later too so I'm probably completely bias lol
 
PES4eva said:
Well I think so but I've always preferred the classic style gameplay over the gameplay of the next generation of systems. I also prefer the PS1 gameplay over PS3 and later too so I'm probably completely bias lol
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The thing is, PES 2008 ps2 is in my TOP 3 but the "next gen" version really just seems like a graphically updated version with the same core gameplay to the PS2 version.
 
TheTonyTornado said:
The thing is, PES 2008 ps2 is in my TOP 3 but the "next gen" version really just seems like a graphically updated version with the same core gameplay to the PS2 version.
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I don't want to just disagree with everyone but I'm going to have to 😄
I think PES 2008 PC/PS3 gameplay is nothing like the PS2 version. The PC and PS3 versions use a different engine.
 
H_G said:
is there a way to create ods file like the ones u have uploaded.
I have both PES 2009 PC/PS3 and PES 2010 PC/PS3 option files, the editor can export it on csv format.
but unfortunately, the layout isn't perfect
Click to expand...
Sorry bro but i got it for someone when PSD still existed, so even the guy who shared it, i got no idea how to reach him and ask how he did it.
There's no editor who open all those versions + export the data csv, i suppose he did it without an editor but with his own skills or another program, or a modded by himself version of a WE/PES editor.

Still a mystery to me and no one asked how he did it... Personally i tried all type of editor and no one exported the full database even with hidden teams like that.
To me it looks like he did it with Fm Genie transformed to fit for WE series lol

>Just to mention, every stats are from Ps2 version, so for Pc/PS3 you goy almost 0,02% of chance to found an editor exporting like it i'm afraid mate
 
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paokkerkir said:
But still, there is something in this game in general, it is just..heavy in everything - even with higher speed settings. Camera transitions slow and I hate it - tried mods - nothing fixes what annoys me (when you pass and the camera is stuck in the passer for a while before moving). And the general way of passing, shooting, etc. It is just not for me.

How the whole game industry managed to do this I don't know. With 8 directions, and old tech, PES PS2 games felt so much more random in shooting and crossing and passing etc than games with multiple times the budget and expertise. It's really impressive. If you said to me in 2006 that in 20 years we won't have an unanimously accepted better game than what he had then, I would say you are crazy, but here we are.
USER=19787]@Energia[/USER] , like you, I'm playing since the PS1 days, ISS Pro 98 to be exact. Over the years I have tried to enjoy newer PES/FIFA games MULTIPLE times. I just can't. PES2021 modded, unmodded, whatever, does not feel right to me. And boy have I tried, I have tried to play for months straight.

Your mods for PES2021 change the gameplay A LOT for sure, I have tried multiple ones and I use them, but there is only so much even you can do without having the source code. The core pes2021 game is always there, and I just don't like it in it's core.

Only FIFA16 is somewhat acceptable to me from the newer games, and only the version 1.00, but I get frustrated with the game with mathematical precision every time I try to seriously play.

Yes, players run in 8-direction tracks in PS2 PES, so what? I like it and prefer it from whatever it is they made in the last 20(!) years. Maybe I'm just getting old. :)

That said, I'm not trying to convince anyone, but it's not just gameplay parameters. The term engine was used before, it's a game engine, not only a graphic engine. Instructions translate differently between different architectures, hell even KONAMI could not have a 100% 1-1 game between PS2 and PC due to completely different architectures.

It's good that we have multiple options so that anyone can choose what they prefer.
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I agree with everything you said regarding PES 2021 @paokkerkir . I believe the heaviness in the game is caused because an action (even with no button lag) just takes about a second or more to actually happen now due to the realism of the game. Passing, shooting, just turning the player - the players now have to turn their body and position their limbs and the player might even do a little flamboyant hand gesture to show where he plans to go before he actually does what you told him to do. They also have to wait for the ball to be in exactly the right position before they can strike it. All of this looks great but it's painful to play. We are directing players in PES 2021 instead of directly controlling them in the old gen engine.

In PES6 because you had bare metal control every millisecond available and every centimeter on the pitch mattered during your decision making.

PES 2021 forces us into a more laid back even a lazy, sloppy manner of playing because you have less immediate control of the player or the ball so its more hands off. The problem with this - the major problem - is that its harder to get into a deep flow state when playing the game. That takes intense concentration.

In the old-gen engine we were always (with great intensity) watching nearby players on the pitch, asking ourselves where do we move next, which combination of moves and actions to do next -> forming our decisions fast -> pressing the buttons FAST.

1777394538149.png

The 8-direction movement allowed us to move around in the 3D space with precision and this gave us a tighter control. The PES 2021 movement is sloppy. The free ball movement in PES 2021 should theoretically give us more freedom and more control since its off rails but notice how the balls movement is so random now and what the simulation will do with it is also so random. Now you are constantly reacting to randomness and a randomMESS.

Like here in this video at 6:54:



A user in pes6 can plan what he will do, identify and counter his opponents decisions and the opponent can counter his. It's like 3D Tekken. Your opponent might have a few options available and you know how each will go if he attempts them so you can decide to do all manners of things. There might even be a few levels to the countering with dummy moves or psychological tricks/battle. Time, intelligence and motivation mattered a lot in the old gen engine - it was an intense battle between two minds (or man against machine).
This psychological battle with moves and counter moves etc does not exist in PES 2021. PES 2021 is a sloppy mess.

In PES 2021 every pass goes a slightly different length when its made, slightly different angle too. As you can see in the above video at 6:54.

The ball bounces a lot in the game, it is very chaotic. Players hit off each other and its really random what happens then , which one falls over, who slips, who wins the ball etc. and at the same time everything seems so samey and muddled because theres no clarity in anything .... so you dont get the clean structure in shots, passes , gameplay etc because its a constant mess

There used to be (based on each persons intelligence) a limit on how fast they could accurately assess the match state (where all the players are) to make their decisions, form strategies and calculate what is possible t do - it was clean data you were working with- so in the old gen engine a user could often be seen to have moments of genius where they would make such a good move or creative decisions so quickly that it seemed impossible to observers or to their opponents that they did what they did. It was just like real soccer :) So PES6 captured the magic of playing real soccer

With the old gen engine people feel much more excitement after scoring goals or performing excellent passes in the match because they caused those goals and outcomes to happen either through perfectly timing their strikes of the ball or creative decision making under extreme pressure. In online matches when players get 1 on 1 with the gk its not uncommon for people to bottle simple situations just from the pressure because they would mistime or misdirect shots/passes because even though the ball is often on rails in the engine - every pass, shot, rebound, header is different due to the physics engine, the timing of when things were executed and what part of the foot/leg was used, if someone chose to shoot high,low, to the left, the angle the passes came to the player if it was a first time shot or pass, or the distance the ball was at when the buttons were pressed , how far ahead of the player the ball was while running at, the users knowledge of the players stats and how it affects the situation they are in etc etc loads of things that must be assessed in a moments notice by the user and skillfully handled for differentiation in outcome/gameplay.

While its very satisfying to watch high level pes6 matches because you can see how intelligent the two guys are, you can see their individual styles clearly and you would for sure pat them on the back if either of them did something amazing (as everything was achieved on merit and there was very little chaos/ luck).

The ball moves like crazy in pes 2021 so its a lot of the time impossible to tell how lucky everything was when achieved.
Now with PES 2021 there is luck involved in everything at all moments.
A lot of what is happening during the match has nothing to do with the users skill or intelligence.
In PES 2021 your freedom is theoretically higher with the free ball movement but your actual agency ends up lower.

The old-gen engine things are more deterministic. It used to be that you'd be laughing during a pes match if some shite happened , in the newer engine its just annoying. If the opponent can put the ball anywhere (or the game can) and you can only move one player at a time or switch between nearby players so now you're relying a lot on off-ball AI movement of your own team which can be annoying because bad things happen that aren't your fault and good things happen that were made possible because of the AI.

I think PES 2021 has very interesting ball movement. It's a nice simulation that I can’t help but admire as a computer science guy.
But there's a noticeable lack of clarity and sharpness in the gameplay and its a bit of a mess.
 
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Even if it makes people in this section hate me, I’m going to say something that won’t sit well with Konami zealots — from the PS3 era onward, EVERY PES has failed to properly handle the most fundamental element of football: the relationship between the player and the ball. This stems from Konami’s consistently low technical standards (both the engine and the competence of its developers).

In the PS2 era, although the series still held an overall edge over FIFA, it had plenty of flaws of its own — for example, its attacking and defensive AI barely improved (even reaching an utterly brain-dead level in titles like WE9/PES5). Even FIFA from the same period displayed many AI highlights (but was held back by a lousy engine and couldn’t get the physics right).

The only truly peerless and genuinely great WE/PES titles are those from the original PS era, from WE4 to WE2002.
 
dontellmama said:
Even if it makes people in this section hate me, I’m going to say something that won’t sit well with Konami zealots — from the PS3 era onward, EVERY PES has failed to properly handle the most fundamental element of football: the relationship between the player and the ball. This stems from Konami’s consistently low technical standards (both the engine and the competence of its developers).

In the PS2 era, although the series still held an overall edge over FIFA, it had plenty of flaws of its own — for example, its attacking and defensive AI barely improved (even reaching an utterly brain-dead level in titles like WE9/PES5). Even FIFA from the same period displayed many AI highlights (but was held back by a lousy engine and couldn’t get the physics right).

The only truly peerless and genuinely great WE/PES titles are those from the original PS era, from WE4 to WE2002.
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I like pretty much of all them from the PS1 & PS2 era but if course have my favourites like everyone else.
I'm surprised you mention PES 5 as brain-dead. It's normally praised for it's intelligent gameplay. I think the titles got a bit more gung-ho from PES 6 onwards but I find those fun too. I really like the difference between each version of PES. If I get bored of a certain PES game I can play one that's a bit different from the last.
 
DKZ Studio

Hello everyone, is it possible to recover old versions of this tool? in particular I am looking for 0.82 - 0.83 - 0.84
Thanks
 
PES4eva said:
I like pretty much of all them from the PS1 & PS2 era but if course have my favourites like everyone else.
I'm surprised you mention PES 5 as brain-dead. It's normally praised for it's intelligent gameplay. I think the titles got a bit more gung-ho from PES 6 onwards but I find those fun too. I really like the difference between each version of PES. If I get bored of a certain PES game I can play one that's a bit different from the last.
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WE9/PES5's attacking AI is notoriously terrible — isn't that widely acknowledged?
 
dontellmama said:
WE9/PES5's attacking AI is notoriously terrible — isn't that widely acknowledged?
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Winning Eleven 9 LE is generally praised as some of the best AI they've done and WE9/PES 5 isn't too far away from it so I definitely wouldn't say that PES 5 has terrible AI. I think the AI took a dip on PES 6 perhaps but then PES 2008 (PS2 version) improved it. I do think different people find different versions of PES easier or more difficult depending on how they naturally play the game. Eg. Some games people think are difficult I find easy and then some games people find easy, I find hard. I think a lot depends on each person's play style as to how easy or difficult the ai is.
 
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