Your favourite game for local multiplayer and single player

[tutu7]

I'll begin:

1) Local multiplayer: WE9LE
Among all the games that I've tried (apart from modded FC25, which I can't play atm), I find this 20-years-old classic pes to be the absolute best. With gameplay module, Kingsley's exe, adjusted stats (ciais and tinker's formula), speeder between 0.8 and 0.9 and many other modules (including the awesome referee module), this game offers one of the most balanced gameplays ever, with realistic end-match data (fouls included, beast of a game) and the classic ps2 pes charm. Never found a game with such an emphasis on both balanced gameplay and player stats relevance. I could have also chosen Pes5/We9, but I can't stand how easy it is to score due to unresponsive goalkeepers. This glaring issue is partially fixed in WE9LE, it seems. It's a shame, because otherwise I would slightly prefer Pes5

2) Honestly, I don't know. In Pes5/we9(le), the CPU is just too basic and non-existent attacking-wise. I've tried elaf's tool and Kingsley's exe (not at the same time, obviously), but the AI just can't be redeemed.
Many other games are too arcade for my taste and this leaves me with few available options. Maybe PES2008 ps2 would be a good choice for its awesome AI, but it can't be modded like the other games.


Unfortunately, I never managed to try Fifa 16 1.00 exe. A real pity, because it seems to be a goat contender from what I heard

 

[simogto90]

I understimated we9le till these last days for a weird reason: i putted a Pes5 option file to translate players name (i don't have a PC and this Is the only way i found) ,but this make the a.i even worse than Pes5 one.
Restoring the original option file and finally i can see the better a.i the game Is praised for on both defense and attack side.
I play the original PS2 version without mods,but this game is still now in 2025 the best one when it comes to physical challenges. Foul counts speak for itself too.
Dribbling is a little weird on Pes5/we9 and Le but it's satisfying, because u have to think better how much,when and where touch the ball..

Generally PS2 we/Pes titles are still the best games Imho: they lack technology, animations, but this gave them a lot of consistency. There are not contextual animation to been triggered, so when you move a player he does what you expect he have to do.
On these games physics Is amazing too, with a lot of variety in shooting and real physical battles.
There is a thing that this games do a lot better than new ones, something that even best fifas never did good: the interaction ball/player/opponent. On these games you have to really intercept the ball from your opponent's feet to stole It,there are not contextual animations,no magnetism, but Just your position,the ball position and opponent One.
Fifa,and the best fifas too,never did this right,and defender just "drain" the ball from opponent's feet when he is in the "right" Place.. games like pes2020/21 do this thing even worse than fifa.
Fifa 16 which is one of the best if not the best fifa,It is not close to best PS2 games in my opinion.

So after saying all my bullshits i think my favorite one for local single Is we9le and for local multi we10le

 

[tutu7]

On these games physics Is amazing too, with a lot of variety in shooting and real physical battles.

Exactly. Newer games lack the level of randomness and unpredictability of the ps2 ones. Despite technological advancements, they're far more monotonous, especially when it comes to players' interactions and shots

 

[*aLe]

Exactly. Newer games lack the level of randomness and unpredictability of the ps2 ones. Despite technological advancements, they're far more monotonous, especially when it comes to players' interactions and shots

I guess because competitive players want them to be like this nowadays.
I mean, they even do have a point, after all: given a known input, they'd expect the output to be consistent (e.g. if one makes 100 times the same pass, with the same strength and the same direction, he'd expect the ball to behave all the times in the same way).
Not abiding by this rule would make the gameplay inconsistent, introducing the "randomness" that frustrates those players (because then one would say "my input was correct but the game decided that the pass would go astray anyway").
Unfortunately, those random moments are what we are after, but I see that it can't be accepted by competitive players that only want the game to 100% represent their input at every time (see also how they ended up "breaking" dribbling and shooting animations in order to have a command executed as soon as it's sent by the player, without waiting for the animation to finish/to be consistent) and unfortunately they're the audience these modern games cater to.

 

[beesze]

I like PES5!

I eventually tried the 5 series of the old PES recently, after all these years playing PES6 which is so easy to beat and your opposite teams seem so inapt at attacking you, although they have the best graphic and numerous good patches for the old PES.

Contrast to most members' opinions, I found PES5 is more funny and alive when compared to WE9LE, mostly because the latter seems easier to score whereas the former is harder to beat.

And I cannot stand the Korean commentary though I really like the less foul system from WE9LE and some minor fixes like the ball bounces back when it hits the adboards, in PES5 the ball only bounces back when it hits the adboards located behind the goals.

Sorry for my bad English.

 

[simogto90]

I like PES5!

I eventually tried the 5 series of the old PES recently, after all these years playing PES6 which is so easy to beat and your opposite teams seem so inapt at attacking you, although they have the best graphic and numerous good patches for the old PES.

Contrast to most members' opinions, I found PES5 is more funny and alive when compared to WE9LE, mostly because the latter seems easier to score whereas the former is harder to beat.

And I cannot stand the Korean commentary though I really like the less foul system from WE9LE and some minor fixes like the ball bounces back when it hits the adboards, in PES5 the ball only bounces back when it hits the adboards located behind the goals.

Sorry for my bad English.

I had the same feelings when i used pes5 option file on we9le. This make we9le easier than Pes5. Using its original option file, i don't know why, but make it a lot more challenging than Pes5.

 

[beesze]

Don't know if the option files make the difference though I did once replace the WE9LE option file with the default option file from PES5 in order to see player names in English.

After this attempt I switched back to the original one from WE9LE, the names turning back to Korean, but it seemed the level had nothing to change, still I feel PES5 is harder to score than WE9LE.

And both games have been playing via the kingsley813's gameplay 5.5 exe files, don't know whether the mods make any difference.

 

[tutu7]

Don't know if the option files make the difference though I did once replace the WE9LE option file with the default option file from PES5 in order to see player names in English.

After this attempt I switched back to the original one from WE9LE, the names turning back to Korean, but it seemed the level had nothing to change, still I feel PES5 is harder to score than WE9LE.

And both games have been playing via the kingsley813's gameplay 5.5 exe files, don't know whether the mods make any difference.

Unfortunately, the AI sucks (the only, real issue of these games). Sometimes, though, it wakes up and scores bangers.
A short video about a decent cpu performance (sorry for the awful quality, but I'm not at home now)

 

[benga0800]

Unfortunately, the AI sucks (the only, real issue of these games). Sometimes, though, it wakes up and scores bangers.

Great camera settings, do you play with reduced speeder settings?, that is known to affect AI aggressiveness somewhat, i always recommend to play with default speed.

Team tactics and player positioning can affect AI agressiveness too, maybe you can try some games in other patches, i can recommend my patch based on season 2009-10 for we9le to give more insight about it, i have received praise of several important members of the forum that the AI agressiveness is very high in my patch despite not having altered the game's code or used special modified exe like kingsley's v5.5, i've only tinkered with the team tactics and formations.

You can find my patch in the link in my signature if you are interested,not meamt to spam or hijack the thread.

 

[tutu7]

do you play with reduced speeder settings?, that is known to affect AI aggressiveness somewhat, i always recommend to play with default speed.

Yeah, with a very low count.factor (usually from 0.83 to 0.91). I've indeed read somewhere that it affects competitivess of the cpu, even if I don't understand how it actually happens. The AI is more toothless also because of the stat tweaks (ciais and tinker's formula). Unfortunately, I have never played this game with both regular stats and default speeder, since it plays way to fast to my liking (especially short passes seem bullets to me ahah). I guess I'll have to try and adapt to enjoy a harder challenge.

i can recommend my patch based on season 2009-10 for we9le to give more insight about it

It is actually one of my favourite patches, along with Fabri's original season. I'll try it with default speeder, too. Do you know if AI aggressiveness is higher without kingsley's exe?

You can find my patch in the link in my signature if you are interested,not meamt to spam or hijack the thread.

No problem! Your patch is excellent and every kind of contribution to this discussion is welcomed!

 

[benga0800]

Yeah, with a very low count.factor (usually from 0.83 to 0.91). I've indeed read somewhere that it affects competitivess of the cpu, even if I don't understand how it actually happens. The AI is more toothless also because of the stat tweaks (ciais and tinker's formula). Unfortunately, I have never played this game with both regular stats and default speeder, since it plays way to fast to my liking (especially short passes seem bullets to me ahah). I guess I'll have to try and adapt to enjoy a harder challenge.

Yeah reducing speed stats can also affect AI aggressiveness, i can reccomend to use the tweaked condition arrows option inside the gameplay kitserver module for balancing the condition arrows of the players, since a high condition arrow affects the overall agility and speed of the players making them more agressive but also makes the game more arcadey, try a combination like this:

Spoiler: Setting

# Tweaked condition arrows options
tweaked-condition-arrows.enabled = 1
excellent-condition.replacement = good
good-condition.replacement = normal
normal-condition.replacement = normal
poor-condition.replacement = normal
terrible-condition.replacement = poor

 

[subtra3t]

PES 18 is amazing for couch coop. The AI is really one dimensional and not very fun to play against, but the dribbling is really great and it's the most responsive PES.

 

[tutu7]

Unfortunately, I never managed to try Fifa 16 1.00 exe. A real pity, because it seems to be a goat contender from what I heard

Apart from pes5, this is the game that intrigues me the most. At the moment, I have FIP patch 2025 + Anth's ball physics + speedhack + "gameplayzed" stats + ciais and el pajaro's cl.ini and other files (https://evoweb.uk/threads/best-fifa...tings-are-here-best-football-game-ever.84485/).
Unfortunately, as I said in the first post, I play on version 1.7 and not on the unanimously better 1.00. I added also some files by papinho which should bring 1.7 closer to the original exe under some aspects.
Even with all of these tweaks, I'm still not satisfied with this game and I think it really depends on the suboptimal exe I'm using.
Nowadays, Fifa 16 Origin keys are sold for hundreds (!) of € and I don't think there is a viable way to buy this game at reasonable prices. Do you know if there are any alternatives?

 

[subtra3t]

Apart from pes5, this is the game that intrigues me the most. At the moment, I have FIP patch 2025 + Anth's ball physics + speedhack + "gameplayzed" stats + ciais and el pajaro's cl.ini and other files (https://evoweb.uk/threads/best-fifa...tings-are-here-best-football-game-ever.84485/).
Unfortunately, as I said in the first post, I play on version 1.7 and not on the unanimously better 1.00. I added also some files by papinho which should bring 1.7 closer to the original exe under some aspects.
Even with all of these tweaks, I'm still not satisfied with this game and I think it really depends on the suboptimal exe I'm using.
Nowadays, Fifa 16 Origin keys are sold for hundreds (!) of € and I don't think there is a viable way to buy this game at reasonable prices. Do you know if there are any alternatives?

Have you tried the supernova gameplay mod? It is suppose to be really good

 

[tutu7]

Have you tried the supernova gameplay mod? It is suppose to be really good

I haven't tried it yet. Thanks for the info. I think the intrinsic limits of the exe will still show up, but there's no harm in trying

 

[simogto90]

Playing vanillla we9le with its option file and to me a.i is very good even on attack side. CPU scored some goals which i never saw on Pes5. Sometimes it waste ball with nosense trough ball,but overall it plays good and it Is very clinical even if not a lot varied.
On desensive side it Is really strong,a lot more than Pes5 one.
Overall the game provide a higher challenge than we2008/Pes2008 too in my opinion.

 

[tutu7]

I have tried many patches, tools vanilla, tactics, etc. to try to make pes5 and WE9(LE) (and even pes6) AI better, but I've only found subtle differences, honestly. The game seems harder with vanilla stats and edited tactics, but I don't find a big difference.
Demoralized, I finally tried PES2008 (PS2) on pcsx2 emulator. The CPU is undoubtedly better on the offensive side (as far as I'm concerned), less defensively. However, PES2008 isn't PES5/WE9/WE9LE: it's a much more arcade game, a sort of an improved vanilla pes6. While it's more difficult, this arcade feeling is a huge drawback, at least for me.
Back to PES5, I guess I'll have to stick to local multiplayer (when I can) or finally try playing it online (even though there aren't many people available, I see), when I'll be able to do that.
I have seen that there are some projects that aim to rework the AI, but it seems they are either stopped or relatively at the beginning.
Anyway, a huge "thank you" to everyone that is keeping these awesome games alive, even 20 years after their release. I'd love to be able to do that, too, but I don't think I have the knowledge or the skills to do so...

 

[Martan]

I'll begin:

1) Local multiplayer: WE9LE
Among all the games that I've tried (apart from modded FC25, which I can't play atm), I find this 20-years-old classic pes to be the absolute best. With gameplay module, Kingsley's exe, adjusted stats (ciais and tinker's formula), speeder between 0.8 and 0.9 and many other modules (including the awesome referee module), this game offers one of the most balanced gameplays ever, with realistic end-match data (fouls included, beast of a game) and the classic ps2 pes charm. Never found a game with such an emphasis on both balanced gameplay and player stats relevance. I could have also chosen Pes5/We9, but I can't stand how easy it is to score due to unresponsive goalkeepers. This glaring issue is partially fixed in WE9LE, it seems. It's a shame, because otherwise I would slightly prefer Pes5

2) Honestly, I don't know. In Pes5/we9(le), the CPU is just too basic and non-existent attacking-wise. I've tried elaf's tool and Kingsley's exe (not at the same time, obviously), but the AI just can't be redeemed.
Many other games are too arcade for my taste and this leaves me with few available options. Maybe PES2008 ps2 would be a good choice for its awesome AI, but it can't be modded like the other games.


Unfortunately, I never managed to try Fifa 16 1.00 exe. A real pity, because it seems to be a goat contender from what I heard

Would you mind sharing your complete setup of WE9LE? Would like to try it.

Thanks

 

[lector]

Multiplayer: PES 2008
Offline: PES 2011

 

[simogto90]

I have tried many patches, tools vanilla, tactics, etc. to try to make pes5 and WE9(LE) (and even pes6) AI better, but I've only found subtle differences, honestly. The game seems harder with vanilla stats and edited tactics, but I don't find a big difference.
Demoralized, I finally tried PES2008 (PS2) on pcsx2 emulator. The CPU is undoubtedly better on the offensive side (as far as I'm concerned), less defensively. However, PES2008 isn't PES5/WE9/WE9LE: it's a much more arcade game, a sort of an improved vanilla pes6. While it's more difficult, this arcade feeling is a huge drawback, at least for me.
Back to PES5, I guess I'll have to stick to local multiplayer (when I can) or finally try playing it online (even though there aren't many people available, I see), when I'll be able to do that.
I have seen that there are some projects that aim to rework the AI, but it seems they are either stopped or relatively at the beginning.
Anyway, a huge "thank you" to everyone that is keeping these awesome games alive, even 20 years after their release. I'd love to be able to do that, too, but I don't think I have the knowledge or the skills to do so...

I have the same "problem" with pes2008,which is still a great game, but they removed too much physicalty and inertia from the gameplay. Everything feels more streamlined. I honestly prefer we10Le over pes2008/we2008 because there is still inertia in animations.
We10le have a better defensive a.i in comparision to pes6,but it's weaker then both we9le and 2008 ones. It's great for local multiplayer anyways.
We9le is still the best football game ever in my opinion

 

[tutu7]

Would you mind sharing your complete setup of WE9LE? Would like to try it.

Thanks

Of course!
I play either Pes5 Original Season ported to WE9LE (info: https://evoweb.uk/threads/we9le-the...regranata91-port-to-we9le.90796/#post-3835104) or Benga's WE9LE 2009-10 patch. Match duration 15 or 20 minutes

EXE
I use Kingsley 5.5 exe (if you don't know how to use it on patches, more information here: https://evoweb.uk/threads/pes5-we9-...ment-v5-5-26-08-24.76214/page-40#post-3973157)

KITSERVER
- Camera module with Zoom set to 800, 900 or 1000, wide (sometimes with angle, sometimes not). Fix stadium clipping=1
-Gameplay module with auto ball physics options enabled, tweaked condition arrows enabled (good, normal, normal, normal, poor)
-Referee module, with card strictness enabled and random referees strictness enabled, minimum 2199999999, maximum 2699999999 (yes, it's very high and sometimes not very realistic, but I use it to punish tactic fouls)
-Scoreboard module
-Flags module, even if I still have to set it up properly
-Cheats module
-Speeder set between 0.80 and 0.88 (higher with tweaked players' stats, lower with default stats). It's very low, as I want a more realistic flow. I heard that some users play at default speed because low speeder values tend to nerf the cpu, but I think it's only more of a human player boost, because the game is slower and it's easier to have good reflexes.


OPTION FILE
I usually use default stats when I play against the cpu (which otherwise seems to become dumb, especially when it comes to cpu vs cpu results); when playing in local multiplayer, I like to use Ciais and Tinker's stat formula (increasing top speed and dribble speed a bit, but that's personal taste). By local multiplayer, in my case, I mean playing via Parsec. I usually play with a friend of mine and there isn't much delay, as long as the connection quality is ok (better with ethernet cable) and the distance between players is acceptable (we are both Italian). In the rare occasions when we manage to be both free, we have a lot of fun and tight games. By far the most interesting football gaming experience I have ever had

 

[Martan]

KITSERVER

Of course!
I play either Pes5 Original Season ported to WE9LE (info: https://evoweb.uk/threads/we9le-the...regranata91-port-to-we9le.90796/#post-3835104) or Benga's WE9LE 2009-10 patch. Match duration 15 or 20 minutes

EXE
I use Kingsley 5.5 exe (if you don't know how to use it on patches, more information here: https://evoweb.uk/threads/pes5-we9-...ment-v5-5-26-08-24.76214/page-40#post-3973157)

KITSERVER
- Camera module with Zoom set to 800, 900 or 1000, wide (sometimes with angle, sometimes not). Fix stadium clipping=1
-Gameplay module with auto ball physics options enabled, tweaked condition arrows enabled (good, normal, normal, normal, poor)
-Referee module, with card strictness enabled and random referees strictness enabled, minimum 2199999999, maximum 2699999999 (yes, it's very high and sometimes not very realistic, but I use it to punish tactic fouls)
-Scoreboard module
-Flags module, even if I still have to set it up properly
-Cheats module
-Speeder set between 0.80 and 0.88 (higher with tweaked players' stats, lower with default stats). It's very low, as I want a more realistic flow. I heard that some users play at default speed because low speeder values tend to nerf the cpu, but I think it's only more of a human player boost, because the game is slower and it's easier to have good reflexes.


OPTION FILE
I usually use default stats when I play against the cpu (which otherwise seems to become dumb, especially when it comes to cpu vs cpu results); when playing in local multiplayer, I like to use Ciais and Tinker's stat formula (increasing top speed and dribble speed a bit, but that's personal taste). By local multiplayer, in my case, I mean playing via Parsec. I usually play with a friend of mine and there isn't much delay, as long as the connection quality is ok (better with ethernet cable) and the distance between players is acceptable (we are both Italian). In the rare occasions when we manage to be both free, we have a lot of fun and tight games. By far the most interesting football gaming experience I have ever had

Finaly had a time and tried your settings yesetrday and I salute you sir. One of the best PES experiences I ever had!

Bit struggling with speed, as with 0,85 the speed itselfs feels fine but It looks like the game itself is not hangling that properly, FPS dropping. I need to adjust that.

Anyway, hats off and thank you sir!

 

[PES4eva]

Multiplayer: WE2002 (PS1)
Single player: WE6FE / PES2008 (PS2)

 

[tutu7]

An online match via Parsec, with the settings I specified in this thread.
To me, this game is just a masterpiece

 

[tutu7]

Playing alongside the CPU makes the game more challenging. Top tier gameplay imho

 

[robertob]

Interesting thread and question that I was pondering lately as I found myself during dark, rainy days drawn back to the good old PS2 and some PES. I own every game from the PS1 days up to PES 2011 on PS2 and played them all over the last weeks to remind myself of how they felt in comparison to each other. Few thoughts on some that stand out to me, in the light of the original question: single vs multi player....

PES 4: hands-down the best single player game. Yes, there're aspects missing in the game play that are available in the later titles and can make the game feel clearly less refined. It's pretty basic and simplistic, yet the intensity, pace, directness of control, crisp passing and precise dribbling make it still a really football game to play even today. Most importantly it's the AI that help it age so well for a single player, on 6* obviously: the AI is actually aggressive and intense in their pressing, plays attacking football and makes decent decision. If you're not on your toes the AI scores easily on you, it's merciless.

I would favour most of the later titles for multi-player, simply because they are more refined and you can do so much more football-wise on the pitch, but perhaps it's exactly these limitations, coupled with the speed and intensity of the AI, that make it feel like a proper challenge to do a Master League still. I'd be allowed only one PES for the rest of my life it would be PES 4.

PES5: Contrary to many, I don't mind the strict ref in PES 5 at all. I find it makes defending inherently tactical and you have to think about the right move. Just like in real life. I like that. The gameplay also feels rich, deep and rewarding. However, the AI in PES5 is simply too tame. Even on 6* you can always easily edge out a scoreless draw, or maybe with some luck have Hamsun head one home to win it 1:0. The AI is sadly s a giant, cuddly panda in PES5 when attacking, notably toned down from its predecessor. I still love how the game feels on the pitch, and multi-player is brilliant (sadly I rarely have anyone to play against these days).

PES6: Way, way, way too easy playing against AI, even on highest difficulty. Which is a shame, because otherwise I find this plays quite complete - for a PS2 PES. It's close to the pinnacle of that era for me. It's so much fun to pass the ball around and score goals. Again as multi-player it's a wonderful game, but why would you pull it out if you're on your own? I'm always going back and forth between 5 and 6

PES 2008: Such a strange one. The goals you can score in this are sensational. It's also challenging against the AI, but not in a good way - because that's also what let this game down for me: the sluggishness of player movements and controls. Especially when defending. The players feel like they run with ankle weights and the ball feels as if filled with lead when passing. It's a hugely frustrating title because the actual flow of the game, the graphical tweaks and shooting are possibly the best for any PS2 PES in my view.

PES 2011: Simply good. Whether single or multi-player. Had a friend over recently and we enjoyed some epic games against each other. In single this a good challenge if you don't play a top team. Master League is a fair challenge and rewarding if you're successful. The football you can play is exciting, even if shooting isn't as good as in PES 2008. This feels to me like a refined PES6, actually. It still struggles in certain situations from sluggishness and lack of direct control of players. I don't understand why KONAMI toned down the aspect of player responsiveness with every game more on more from PES 4 onwards... just in the name of "realism"? The AI that controls the other players in your team is also more often than not brain dead. That leads to frustrating situations. It's still a really good game though. I wish the pace would be a tiny bit faster. Then it would be near perfect.

In Summary: PES4 is my winner for single player, with PES 2011 closely followed. PES 5 is the winner for multi-player, closely followed by PES 6 and PES 2011.

 

[subtra3t]

Interesting thread and question that I was pondering lately as I found myself during dark, rainy days drawn back to the good old PS2 and some PES. I own every game from the PS1 days up to PES 2011 on PS2 and played them all over the last weeks to remind myself of how they felt in comparison to each other. Few thoughts on some that stand out to me, in the light of the original question: single vs multi player....

PES 4: hands-down the best single player game. Yes, there're aspects missing in the game play that are available in the later titles and can make the game feel clearly less refined. It's pretty basic and simplistic, yet the intensity, pace, directness of control, crisp passing and precise dribbling make it still a really football game to play even today. Most importantly it's the AI that help it age so well for a single player, on 6* obviously: the AI is actually aggressive and intense in their pressing, plays attacking football and makes decent decision. If you're not on your toes the AI scores easily on you, it's merciless.

I would favour most of the later titles for multi-player, simply because they are more refined and you can do so much more football-wise on the pitch, but perhaps it's exactly these limitations, coupled with the speed and intensity of the AI, that make it feel like a proper challenge to do a Master League still. I'd be allowed only one PES for the rest of my life it would be PES 4.

PES5: Contrary to many, I don't mind the strict ref in PES 5 at all. I find it makes defending inherently tactical and you have to think about the right move. Just like in real life. I like that. The gameplay also feels rich, deep and rewarding. However, the AI in PES5 is simply too tame. Even on 6* you can always easily edge out a scoreless draw, or maybe with some luck have Hamsun head one home to win it 1:0. The AI is sadly s a giant, cuddly panda in PES5 when attacking, notably toned down from its predecessor. I still love how the game feels on the pitch, and multi-player is brilliant (sadly I rarely have anyone to play against these days).

PES6: Way, way, way too easy playing against AI, even on highest difficulty. Which is a shame, because otherwise I find this plays quite complete - for a PS2 PES. It's close to the pinnacle of that era for me. It's so much fun to pass the ball around and score goals. Again as multi-player it's a wonderful game, but why would you pull it out if you're on your own? I'm always going back and forth between 5 and 6

PES 2008: Such a strange one. The goals you can score in this are sensational. It's also challenging against the AI, but not in a good way - because that's also what let this game down for me: the sluggishness of player movements and controls. Especially when defending. The players feel like they run with ankle weights and the ball feels as if filled with lead when passing. It's a hugely frustrating title because the actual flow of the game, the graphical tweaks and shooting are possibly the best for any PS2 PES in my view.

PES 2011: Simply good. Whether single or multi-player. Had a friend over recently and we enjoyed some epic games against each other. In single this a good challenge if you don't play a top team. Master League is a fair challenge and rewarding if you're successful. The football you can play is exciting, even if shooting isn't as good as in PES 2008. This feels to me like a refined PES6, actually. It still struggles in certain situations from sluggishness and lack of direct control of players. I don't understand why KONAMI toned down the aspect of player responsiveness with every game more on more from PES 4 onwards... just in the name of "realism"? The AI that controls the other players in your team is also more often than not brain dead. That leads to frustrating situations. It's still a really good game though. I wish the pace would be a tiny bit faster. Then it would be near perfect.

In Summary: PES4 is my winner for single player, with PES 2011 closely followed. PES 5 is the winner for multi-player, closely followed by PES 6 and PES 2011.

I'm glad to see that someone finally likes the referees on PES 5. I don't think they're nearly as detrimental to the game as many people make it out to be. Unlike in PES 6 where you can spam sliding tackles without thinking and not be punished, PES 5 forces you to think about every move you make while defending. Even executing a shoulder push needs to be timed correctly.

What do you think of PES 2013/2014? I've heard good things about their PS2 versions, mostly about how much more fluid dribbling is and the attacking variety.

Also, where can you play PES 5 multiplayer? I only know about the PES 6 Stars server, I wasn't aware of any equivalent server for PES 5.

 

[robertob]

Yes I totally agree, that's what I mean exactly, you got to manage every move when you defend, and if you're reckless, pushing or bumping, it's a foul, like it would be in real life. I guess for a game - given it's not a simulation - it can be sometimes a tad annoying when you're in the heat of the moment. But generally the ref isn't an issue for me in PES 5 for all the reasons you outline too. I find it much weirder in in later games that the ref is so far toned down as nearly being there as a token gesture.

Saying that, here once again PES 4 shines like no other PES. It simply finds the right balance - the ref tends to be on the strict side, but not quite as extreme as in PES 5. You still have to be careful, yet the direct nature of player control make it quite easy and rewarding to get the ball off an opponent.

The last game I have on PS2 is the 2011 version - as referenced in my original post it's really good in my view and it's certainly different in feel to PES 5 and 6, albeit look is basically identical. Beyond 2011 my impression was back then from reading reviews that the following PS2 games up to the final 2014 version stayed exactly the same only with updated rosters - so I didn't bother buying. I'm curious if anyone has played them, whether they offer anything new or different gameplay wise to PES2011?

Multiplayer: I should have been more precise: for me that meant playing against friends. I'd love to know if there is a way via PS2 to play over the internet? I don't know and am technically inept on these things. I just about managed - thanks to the great guidance of this forum - to get an option file with updated plyers & teams on to a memory card.

 

[subtra3t]

Multiplayer: I should have been more precise: for me that meant playing against friends. I'd love to know if there is a way via PS2 to play over the internet? I don't know and am technically inept on these things. I just about managed - thanks to the great guidance of this forum - to get an option file with updated plyers & teams on to a memory card.

After reading your post, I did a bit of research and found out that there is actually a PES 5 server to play multiplayer. It's exclusive to PC though.

 

[robertob]

Ah okay cool, shame though I only play on PS2.